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Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

simonwillison.net

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Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#321

Post by pertymcpert »

nine_zeros wrote: post #98
happyopossum wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> literally a single Deepseek release yesterday destroyed large market cap companies Nobody was “destroyed” - a handful of companies had their stock price drop, a couple had big drops, but most of those stocks are up today, showing that the market is reactionary.

Alright, if this is more palatable - let's just say market caps will decline because of small code updates made anywhere in the world. The point still is: Software/engineering is no longer the moat creator.

You completely misunderstood the reason for the stock price drop. It was because of the DeepSeek MoE model's compute efficiency which vastly reduced the compute requirements needed to achieve a certain level of performance.

Notice how Apple and Meta stocks went up last 2 days?

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#323

Post by nprateem »

jmward01 wrote: post #319

So, AGI will likely be here in the next few months because the path is now actually clear: Training will be in three phases: - traditional just to build a minimum model that can get to reasoning - simple RL to enable reasoning to emerge - complex RL that injects new knowledge, builds better reasoning and prioritizes efficient thought We now have step two and step three is not far away. What is step three though? It w…

LOL.

I think you mean:

1. Simple reasoning

2. ???

3. AGI

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#324

Post by unshavedyak »

WXLCKNO wrote: post #283
unshavedyak wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m still just looking for a good workflow where I can stay in my editor and largely focus on code, rather than trying to explain what I want to an LLM. I want to stay in Helix and find a workflow that “just works”. Not sure even what that looks like yet

Just to clarify, something like Cursor doesn't fit your needs right?

I've not tried tbh. Most of the workflows i've seen (i know i looked at Cursor, but it's been a while) appear to be to write lengthy descriptions of what you want it to do. As well as struggling with the amount of context you need to give it because context windows are way too small.

I feel like i want a more intuitive, natural process. Purely for illustration -- because i have no idea what the ideal workflow is -- I'd want something that could allow for large autocomplete without changing much. Maybe a process by which i write a function, args, docstring on the func and then as i write the body autocomplete becomes multiline and very good.

Something like this could be an extension of the normal autocomplete that most of us know and love. A lack of talking to an AI, and more about just tweaking how you write code to be very metadata rich so AIs have a rich understanding of intent.

I know there are LLM LSPs which sort of do this. They can make shorter autocompletes that are logical to what you're typing, but i think i'm talking about something larger than that.

So yea.. i don't know, but i just know i have hated talking to the LLM. Usually it felt like "get out of the way, i can do it faster" sort of thing. I want something to improve how we write code, not an intern that we manage. If that makes sense.

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#325

Post by root_axis »

jmward01 wrote: post #319

So, AGI will likely be here in the next few months because the path is now actually clear: Training will be in three phases: - traditional just to build a minimum model that can get to reasoning - simple RL to enable reasoning to emerge - complex RL that injects new knowledge, builds better reasoning and prioritizes efficient thought We now have step two and step three is not far away. What is step three though? It w…

> So, AGI will likely be here in the next few months because the path is now actually clear: Training will be in three phases

My bet: "AGI" won't be here in months or even years, but it won't stop prognosticators from claiming it's right around the corner. Very similar to prophets of doom claiming the world is going to end any day now. Even in 10k years, the claim can never be falsified, it's always just around the corner...

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#326

Post by nprateem »

anotherpaulg wrote: post #61

> 99% of the code in this PR [for llama.cpp] is written by DeekSeek-R1 It's definitely possible for AI to do a large fraction of your coding, and for it to contribute significantly to "improving itself". As an example, aider currently writes about 70% of the new code in each of its releases. I automatically track and share this stat as graph [0] with aider's release notes. Before Sonnet, most releases were less than…

> As an example, aider currently writes about 70% of the new code in each of its releases.

Yeah but part of that is because it's physically impossible to stop it making random edits for the sake of it.

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#327

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

nprateem wrote: post #323
jmward01 wrote: post #319

So, AGI will likely be here in the next few months because the path is now actually clear: Training will be in three phases: - traditional just to build a minimum model that can get to reasoning - simple RL to enable reasoning to emerge - complex RL that injects new knowledge, builds better reasoning and prioritizes efficient thought We now have step two and step three is not far away. What is step three though? It w…

LOL. I think you mean: 1. Simple reasoning 2. ??? 3. AGI

Exactly. I read that parent comment thinking it was totally sarcastic at first, and then realized it was serious.

I wish everyone would stop using the term "AGI" altogether, because it's not just ambiguous, but it's deliberately ambiguous by AI hypesters. That is, in public discourse/media/what average person thinks, AGI is presented to mean "as smart as a human" with all the capabilities that entails. But then it is often presented with all of these caveats by those same AI hypesters to mean something along the lines of "advanced complex reasoning", despite the fact that there are glaring holes compared to what a human is capable of.

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#328

Post by numba888 »

LeFantome wrote: post #147
jeswin wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's why I'm not worried. There is already SO MUCH more demand for code than we're able to keep up with. Show me a company that doesn't have a backlog a mile long where most of the internal conversations are about how to prioritize what to build next. I worry about junior developers. It will be a while before vocational programming courses retool to teach this new way of writing code, and these are going to be te…

“ It's a difficult problem to solve, requiring new sets of books, courses etc.” Instead of this, have you considered asking Deep Seek to explain it to you?

By the time book comes out it's outdated. DeepSeek has its own cut-off date.

And here is the problem: AI needs to be trained on something. Use of AI reduces the use of online forums, some of them are actively blocking access, like reddit. So, for AI to stay relevant it has to generate the knowledge by itself. Like having full control of a computer, taking queries from human supervisor, and really trying to solve. Having this sort of AI actors in online forum will benefit everyone.

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#329

Post by jmward01 »

root_axis wrote: post #325
jmward01 wrote: post #319

So, AGI will likely be here in the next few months because the path is now actually clear: Training will be in three phases: - traditional just to build a minimum model that can get to reasoning - simple RL to enable reasoning to emerge - complex RL that injects new knowledge, builds better reasoning and prioritizes efficient thought We now have step two and step three is not far away. What is step three though? It w…

> So, AGI will likely be here in the next few months because the path is now actually clear: Training will be in three phases My bet: "AGI" won't be here in months or even years, but it won't stop prognosticators from claiming it's right around the corner. Very similar to prophets of doom claiming the world is going to end any day now. Even in 10k years, the claim can never be falsified, it's always just around the c…

Maybe, but I know what my laser focus will be on for the next few weeks. I suspect a massive number of researchers around the world have just switched their focus in a similar way. The resources applied to this problem have been going up exponentially and the recent RL techniques have now opened the floodgates for anyone with a 4090 (or even smaller!) to try crazy things. In a world where the resources are constant I would agree with your basic assertion that 'it is right around the corner' will stay that way, but in a world where resources are doubling this fast there is no doubt we are about to achieve it.

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#330

Post by the_af »

smokel wrote: post #203
LeFantome wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ It's a difficult problem to solve, requiring new sets of books, courses etc.” Instead of this, have you considered asking Deep Seek to explain it to you?

Before this comment is being downvoted, please note the irony. The AI models may solve some technical problems, but the actual problems to be solved are of a societal nature, and won't be solved in our lifetimes.

I agree there are hard societal problems that tech alone cannot solve -- or at all. It reminds me of the era, not long ago, when the hipster startup bros thought "there is an app for that" (and they were ridiculously out of touch with the actual problem, which was famine, homelessness, poverty, a natural disaster, etc).

For mankind, the really big problems aren't going away any time soon.

But -- and it's a big but -- many of us aren't working on those problems. I'm ready to agree most of what I've done for decades in my engineering job(s) is largely inconsequential. I don't delude myself into thinking I'm changing the world. I know I'm not!

What I'm doing is working on something interesting (not always) while earning a nice paycheck and supporting my family and my hobbies. If this goes away, I'll struggle. Should the world care? Likely not. But I care. And I'm unlikely to start working on solving societal problems as a job, it's too much of a burden to bear.

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