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Kansas tuberculosis outbreak is America's largest recorded since the 1950s

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Re: Kansas tuberculosis outbreak is America's largest recorded since the 1950s

#321

Post by rob74 »

ksenzee wrote: post #267
BeetleB wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US medical community never accepted the effectiveness of that vaccine. They don't think it does a good job at prevention and it makes it harder to detect as anyone whose had that vaccine treats positive with the skin test.

All of the above, as well as the fact that the incidence of TB is already so low that the vaccine could cause more harm than it prevents.

Aside from TB, you could also call this "the tragedy of vaccination": vaccination causes the incidence of a life-threatening disease to become so low that people consider the vaccine to cause more harm than it prevents - until the vaccination rate becomes so low that the life-threatening disease is back.

Re: Kansas tuberculosis outbreak is America's largest recorded since the 1950s

#322

Post by cjfd »

hinkley wrote: post #279
SecretDreams wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully we can course correct before we have to relearn lessons from the 1800s.

Maybe if we learned about the 1800’s in school things would be going better now.

[flagged]

Re: Kansas tuberculosis outbreak is America's largest recorded since the 1950s

#323

Post by Dalewyn »

matwood wrote: post #320
Dalewyn wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

To be charged with a crime signals the beginning of a trial, a conviction signals the conclusion of a trial with a guilty verdict.

From an archived DoJ page[1] at the year 3 (January 2024) mark, ~1200 defendants were charged and 171 were convicted (32 without a trial). 749 were sentenced in total.

So that's presumably still more than several hundred defendants waiting for what should be a speedy trial.

Again, that is not how we should operate in this country. If you accuse (charge) someone of a crime their trial should be brought as swiftly as possible as mandated by the Constitution. That this was not done is by itself enough cause to pardon them, let alone the exaggeration of the charges presented.

Also, to close things out:

>The 'back the blue' and 'tough on crime' party is a total farce.

Trump and Republicans enjoyed and continue to enjoy the approval and cooperation of law enforcement agencies across the country both before and after the pardons were issued.

[1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20240108135705/https://www.justi...

Re: Kansas tuberculosis outbreak is America's largest recorded since the 1950s

#324

Post by rightbyte »

danw1979 wrote: post #294
mhandley wrote: post #51

Not being from the US, I find it odd that the article didn't mention anything about vaccination. Until 2005, pretty much everyone in the UK received the BCG vaccine. After that the TB rate fell too low to merit routine vaccination, but even today it's still given routinely in a few areas where the rate merits it, or if there's elevated risk of exposure via family from abroad, etc. Has vaccination in general become su…

Kind of related to your point… I remember my maternal Grandmother was looking after me one day and I’d either missed or skipped my earlier vaccination appointment in school (which, I think was a BCG or booster, it was in the early 1990s). She was raised by her maternal Grandmother after her mother died from TB when she was 2 years old. Her father died of… something infectious when she was teenager (the oral history i…

I think it was just some small anti-culture (like healing stones or whatever. Same people initially) that got dragged into the with us or against us political landscape of the US.

Re: Kansas tuberculosis outbreak is America's largest recorded since the 1950s

#325

Post by Eisenstein »

eth0up wrote: post #211
tbrownaw wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's probably time we start looking a bit harder for "natural" or alternate treatments. Is the idea that a different label would lead to higher compliance rates?

Resistance. It's not quite the end of the world if TB becomes impervious to, say, catnip or whatever, which isn't front line medicine. And some options might have a more mechanical rather than biological mechanism/function. Compliance for a 6 month course of just about anything is difficult and more so for something that may seem asymptomatic. Oozing sores, foul oders and overt discomfort would probably help, but ala…

I'm sorry but this doesn't make sense. Antibiotic resistance to TB only affects those who have TB, so if another 'natural' medicine is found and TB gets resistant to it, then it is still just as bad for the people affected.

Natural means nothing in this context. Effective medicine is effective medicine, and there is nothing that makes TB less prone to developing a resistance to a 'natural' effective medicine over any other effective medicine.

Re: Kansas tuberculosis outbreak is America's largest recorded since the 1950s

#326

Post by dragonwriter »

Dalewyn wrote: post #323
matwood wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

To be charged with a crime signals the beginning of a trial, a conviction signals the conclusion of a trial with a guilty verdict. From an archived DoJ page[1] at the year 3 (January 2024) mark, ~1200 defendants were charged and 171 were convicted (32 without a trial). 749 were sentenced in total. So that's presumably still more than several hundred defendants waiting for what should be a speedy trial. Again, that is…

> From an archived DoJ page[1] at the year 3 (January 2024) mark, ~1200 defendants were charged and 171 were convicted (32 without a trial). 749 were sentenced in total.

The number sentenced cannot be higher than the number convicted (and the source document, unlike your summary, does not make that impossible claim), since sentencing requires conviction.

> So that's presumably more than several hundred defendants waiting for what should be a speedy trial.

Many of them were charged substantially after the event, “Speedy trial” refers to the time from charging to trial (the time from event to charges is governed by statute of limitations, not speedy trial rights.)

Re: Kansas tuberculosis outbreak is America's largest recorded since the 1950s

#327

Post by johnnyanmac »

Dalewyn wrote: post #318
johnnyanmac wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I clealrly disagree with a lot of your viewpoints. But I need to laser down on fhis: >What we are seeing now with January pardons Why do you expect and want to see this? What about that event resonated with you that you'd excuse those people? I expected this to be a bi+partisan shame on the country, so I just do not see the angle here.

[flagged]

Thank you. I expectedly disagree, but there's no point in arguing. I simply don't get much chance in this atmosphere to get well thought out answers contrary to my own views.

I'll just say this:

>correct this significant, and as far as I'm aware unprecedented, abuse of the judiciary and he delivered on that promise.

This is extremely common because "speedy" was simply never defined. Taking months over minor non-violent crimes like drug usage as an example. Given the chaos in identifying all suspects (IIRC they were never all fully discovered, an atrocity in and of itself in our police system), I'm not too surprised it took years to try everyone caught.

No one's probably chomping at the bit to re-define "speedy" better:

>a trial conducted according to prevailing rules and procedures that takes place without unreasonable or undue delay or within a statutory period.

but I think we both agree this is a very vauge, insufficient definition.

Re: Kansas tuberculosis outbreak is America's largest recorded since the 1950s

#328

Post by Dalewyn »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #327
Dalewyn wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Thank you. I expectedly disagree, but there's no point in arguing. I simply don't get much chance in this atmosphere to get well thought out answers contrary to my own views. I'll just say this: >correct this significant, and as far as I'm aware unprecedented, abuse of the judiciary and he delivered on that promise. This is extremely common because "speedy" was simply never defined. Taking months over minor non-viole…

>Thank you. I expectedly disagree, but there's no point in arguing. I simply don't get much chance in this atmosphere to get well thought out answers contrary to my own views.

I also appreciate that we can have a peaceful, friendly, normal conversation about this unlike how these things would usually transpire up until just recently, so thanks.

Re: Kansas tuberculosis outbreak is America's largest recorded since the 1950s

#329

Post by mandmandam »

khazhoux wrote: post #226
SkyPuncher wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they absolutely do. There's a big difference between a country that has 50% support of a person and 25% support of a person.

Everyone who chose not to vote effectively removed themselves from the set of people to be counted as either supporting or not supporting this administration.

That's not actually how 'support' works, especially when 'the' alternative was committed to arming a genocidal apartheid regime against the will of their own voters. Many. many people can no longer stomach to 'hold their noses' and vote in favor of open atrocity.

There's a whole lot of people who strongly disdain both parties, on that basis and others. They are not remotely proportionally represented by either government or media, but they do exist and they don't support this administration.

Btw, there are all kinds of electoral solutions to the two party bind which you seem to have entirely accepted. Neither party will ever willingly bring those in.

Re: Kansas tuberculosis outbreak is America's largest recorded since the 1950s

#330

Post by sitkack »

rob74 wrote: post #321
ksenzee wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the above, as well as the fact that the incidence of TB is already so low that the vaccine could cause more harm than it prevents.

Aside from TB, you could also call this "the tragedy of vaccination": vaccination causes the incidence of a life-threatening disease to become so low that people consider the vaccine to cause more harm than it prevents - until the vaccination rate becomes so low that the life-threatening disease is back.

You know, if everyone wrote a predator prey simulation from scratch, they would understand those oscillatory dynamics.
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