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US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

reuters.com

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Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#321

Post by curiousgal »

whoitwas wrote: post #312
brookst wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So… if China mistreats their citizens, reciprocity says we must mistreat ours? You don’t fight censorship with censorship. That doesn’t stand up to even the most cursory thought. You fight censorship with openness. As soon as you find yourself arguing that you have no choice but to engage in the same behaviors you claim to dislike, you have literally become the enemy.

I don't understand this position. It's not censorship, it's security. It's protecting USA from China. Why should we allow China to have access to all contacts, media, location, etc for half of all Americans? Would you agree on a limited ban for military or government employees?

If I had to pick between sharing my data with the Chinese government or US corporations I would pick China every single time.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#322

Post by berdario »

kelnos wrote: post #250
brookst wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. If censorship is wrong, then it is wrong. If censorship is just fine, the n it is just fine. It is the height of hypocrisy to engage in censorship in the name of stamping out censorship. It feels like a tautology because the opposing viewpoint is a very simple hypocrisy. If you don’t like something, don’t do it.

Your argument is predicated on the idea that banning TikTok is censorship. It's not. No speech or information is being suppressed; any speech being made on TikTok can instead be made on other platforms. This isn't like China where the government bans any services they can't control, and directs the services that they can control to suppress any information they don't want people talking about.

> any speech being made on TikTok can instead be made on other platforms

That wholly depends on what are the other platforms. Meta's platforms for example are pretty heavy handed in their censorship:

https://www.hrw.org/report/2023/12/21/metas-broken-promises/...

And Youtube is not that much better.

To be fair, some of the same voices that get censored on US platforms are also getting censored on TikTok (though I currently cannot find the posts or articles that highlighted the issue)

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#323

Post by oefrha »

cmeacham98 wrote: post #293
oefrha wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s definitely not “purely about economical war”. A large part of it was public support for Palestine and the perceived role of TikTok in it, which explains the timing of the ban and why it succeeded this time around. Evidence? Well, many congresscritters were very open about this motive, e.g. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/lawmaker... But yes, of course “social media is bad for children” had no…

"A large part of it" However, the evidence is that "at least two" Congressmen mentioned it as a reason a single time each.

“You provided a single link so all the evidence in the world is that single link” is some lame trolling. The topic has been reported many times over since last October/November, with letter to Treasury Secretary [1], op-eds, hearings and addresses on Congress floor which you can look up yourself in a few minutes. [2] is a starting point from early on.

[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/israel-palestine-hawl...

[2] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/10/tiktok-faces-renew...

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#324

Post by OhioMan2943 »

chvid wrote: post #304
OhioMan2943 wrote: post #167

This is one of the things in my lifetime that gives me the most optimism, alongisde the IRA Bill. as someone in Australia who strongly supports our recent U16 ban, I hope META gets removed/broken up for you guys soon after, at least for underage users. I'm 22 and often wish I had never been born into a world with social media, with the belief that it is one of the worst things we have ever made as a species. I know t…

That is a very naive take. Banning TikTok will make US big tech (Google and Meta) much more powerful and much harder for politicians to regulate.

Market consolidation is bad but i'm hoping this is the start of something. Even though with the elect it probably isn't

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#325

Post by WA »

submeta wrote: post #301
WA wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is observable untrue. Social media thrives because of the lack of consent in the population. Social media amplifies dissent. That is why many people find these places so toxic.

Do you believe that META does not censor content? Or amplify specific views? Or suppress the reach of certain others?

> Do you believe that META does not censor content?

To some degree for sure, simply because they have to by law.

> Or amplify specific views? Or suppress the reach of certain others?

They have the technical capabilities and what Meta in particular does: I don't know. But given the social media landscape as a whole (not only platsforms by Meta) and seeing so many nutjobs having tremendous reach with lies and fake content, I really don't think there is a lot of suppression or view-shaping going on. The views would be a lot more homogeneus if you were being manipulated on a large scale.

Since you mentioned the conflict in the ME: There are proponents of both sides with tremendous reach and depending on your bubble, you either see more of the one side or the other. But of course, since the immediate conflict has been going on for a while, the sentiment changed.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#326

Post by rdm_blackhole »

tgma wrote: post #49
betaby wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are Huawei backdoors part of the active telecom control that China has in the US networks currently? No. There were audits and fond no backdoors in Huawei equipment.

Audits can only conclusively prove existence of backdoors, not lack of backdoors. At best , you get some assurance.

That's not very logical at all.

I believe that a flying unicorn orbits the moon. When no unicorn is found, does that prove that a unicorn may exist?

You can't use a negative to prove a point. Either the point is proven and supported by evidence or it is just speculation. If it is speculation, then it can be dismissed since it has no basis in reality.

In this particular case, if an audit was done and found no backdoors then as far as we know and until such a time as we find a backdoor, then there are no backdoors.

If you want to continue to believe that there is a backdoor, then this is an opinion which does not constitute proof of any sort and certainly should not be used to come up with policies such as banning a company from operating in the US in case of a mythical backdoor which has so far eluded everyone.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#327

Post by rfoo »

lovich wrote: post #128
soheil wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a stupid argument. This is about censorship to American citizens and a conversation about losing their rights as an authoritarian state's victims.

If TikTok is the only place you can speak and there aren’t equivalent services then it sounds like it needs to be broken up on the basis of being a monopoly. As there are other services and the only thing being targeted is foreign ownership by members of a country that blocks our services, then no, I don’t think it’s about censorship. This wasn’t even a ban on TikTok, bytedance could have sold to an American owner bu…

> This wasn’t even a ban on TikTok, bytedance could have sold to an American owner but have refused.

So, you mean this wasn't even a ban, it was just robbery?

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#328

Post by corimaith »

brookst wrote: post #146
gkanai wrote: post #100

Reciprocity is key. Google and Facebook and most Western web services are blocked in China. If that is the case, then there should be no complaint with blocking Bytedance/other Chinese apps in the West.

So… if China mistreats their citizens, reciprocity says we must mistreat ours? You don’t fight censorship with censorship. That doesn’t stand up to even the most cursory thought. You fight censorship with openness. As soon as you find yourself arguing that you have no choice but to engage in the same behaviors you claim to dislike, you have literally become the enemy.

>You don’t fight censorship with censorship. That doesn’t stand up to even the most cursory thought. You fight censorship with openness.

There is literally no basis for this belief. Do you have a realistic solution to the gish gallop? Have internet comments proven to follow the most well reasoned with it's own uncertainties or the most rhetorically convincing?

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#329

Post by est »

wiseowise wrote: post #193
est wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the worst part of a Communism is "planned economy", e.g. the state decides which app/service is good or not.

Surely planned economy was the worst part and not repressions and millions dead under red boot.

the reason behind millions of death because the grain rationing system leaving little to none food for peasants in the 1960s, yeah it's still economical issue.

Bad things happen when the state controls everything.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#330

Post by corimaith »

Fornax96 wrote: post #313
kelnos wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is predicated on the idea that banning TikTok is censorship. It's not. No speech or information is being suppressed; any speech being made on TikTok can instead be made on other platforms. This isn't like China where the government bans any services they can't control, and directs the services that they can control to suppress any information they don't want people talking about.

Who says the US isn't controlling the narrative on US social media?

Sure are alot of people insinuating they are
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