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Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

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Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#321

Post by insane_dreamer »

currymj wrote: post #107
nuancebydefault wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are such things in the US so complicated? Where I live, studying is much much cheaper for most professions,for everyone! That's the only fair way. Also, a set of well educated people pays itself back later in the form of mostly income and added value taxes, which provides money to keep studying for cheap for the next generation.

the ideal is that college should be very expensive for rich people and cheap, free, or at least more affordable, for less wealthy people. american universities get closer to this ideal than you might expect. the days of outrageous student debt are thankfully fading away, at least for undergraduate degrees. it would make more sense to do this redistribution through taxes if possible, but many US institutions are priva…

> the ideal is that college should be very expensive for rich people and cheap, free, or at least more affordable, for less wealthy people. american universities get closer to this ideal than you might expect. the days of outrageous student debt are thankfully fading away, at least for undergraduate degrees.

this is partly true. it is cheap / free for very low income -- if you qualify for a Pell grant you can usually get additional financial aid from your state university that can bring your cost down to zero.

But if you are above the low income line, but by no means wealthy -- so if you're a household making say $100K a year, then college is extremely expensive and unaffordable especially if you have several kids. You're not poor enough to qualify for substantial financial aid, and you're not wealthy enough to afford tuition. Yeah, your kid can get into Harvard or Stanford for free, but the chances of them being accepted are vanishingly small no matter how smart they are.

The saving grace is community college -- enroll at the local CC for 2 years and then transfer to the state school.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#322

Post by insane_dreamer »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #303
currymj wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the ideal is that college should be very expensive for rich people and cheap, free, or at least more affordable, for less wealthy people. american universities get closer to this ideal than you might expect. the days of outrageous student debt are thankfully fading away, at least for undergraduate degrees. it would make more sense to do this redistribution through taxes if possible, but many US institutions are priva…

> the ideal is that college should be very expensive for rich people and cheap, free, or at least more affordable, for less wealthy people. This is an excellent summary of the Harvard University tuition strategy for the last 20 years.

But this strategy only applies to the wealthy universities, like Harvard, which are extremely difficult to get into -- and that is by design (Harvard could expand its student body), since what Harvard is selling these days, above all, is exclusivity.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#323

Post by [deleted] »

wnc3141 wrote: post #212
tomcam wrote: post #204

On a related note, why does an institution so commendably progressive as Harvard charge tuition at all?

I've come to realize what we think as progressive places are what I consider "inclusively conservative" as in liberal socially, but very much bound to keeping wealth strata in place. San Francisco + older bay area cities are a prime example of being a bastion of free market capitalism in the guise of progressivism.

[deleted]

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#324

Post by arcmechanica »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #319
BalinKing wrote: post #311

I saw a similar headline just today (albeit on a much smaller scale) for Carnegie Mellon University: https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/carnegie-mellon-univ... I feel like the timing is too close to be a coincidence—does anyone know if there's a link?

Maybe it has something to do with the incoming Trump administration and federal student loans. They seem to want to reduce government spending and may see federal student loans as waste, especially since some were forgiven. Maybe there is some amount of arm-twisting involved. Better for the universities to not mention any of that and appear altruistic.

The freshman class of MIT pays enough to cover all other students every year.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#325

Post by m463 »

jjeaff wrote: post #68
TheJoeMan wrote: post #32

This is a great step in the right direction. I can't speak directly for MIT, but there are issues with how these programs don't apply to parents with small family businesses. My parents had a small business, with my father taking home a salary of $XX,XXX. Duke University used the business assets to determine the EFC (expected family contribution) of literally 90% of the salary. Essentially saying to sell off the fami…

I can understand why they might do this. Many people who own a small business underpay themselves significantly and use the extra funds on the business to build up assets. This defers taxes and allows the funds to be reinvested without tax. They might even take out loans on those business assets. The same way the wealthy will pay themselves a tiny salary and just live off the asset value of their stock. Someone who o…

I remember CEOs having a salary of $1...

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#326

Post by insane_dreamer »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #133
nuancebydefault wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are such things in the US so complicated? Where I live, studying is much much cheaper for most professions,for everyone! That's the only fair way. Also, a set of well educated people pays itself back later in the form of mostly income and added value taxes, which provides money to keep studying for cheap for the next generation.

We have plenty of cheaper schools too, and they’re fine. The expensive schools are for the richest people to say they went to school next to the best students who get in free.And for the best students to meet rich people.

The cheapest you're going to get is $10K a year (and that's hard to find), and that's just tuition. If it's not near your parents' home then you're looking at $25K/year bare minimum (as in living off ramen packs and peanut butter). So that's $100K that your parents have to have saved up (per child) or which you have to take on as debt.

Just looked up our main state schools and cost of attendance is $31K - $35K for in-state residents. So that's $120K - $140K for 4 years (not counting increases). And these aren't top-100 schools either.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#327

Post by snowwrestler »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #307
snowwrestler wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be similar if your stock dividends were your sole irreplaceable means of support. So, you sell your stock and give the money to MIT. Now you can’t buy more stock, and therefore have no future income. Permanently ending your career to send your kid to college is an unreasonable sacrifice, in my book.

I wouldn't want to make that sacrifice either, but I also understand that im not entitled to tuition assistance as some sort of human right

No one is arguing it is some sort of human right. The argument is that being the owner-operator of a small business is a financially different situation from having a lot of liquid wealth sitting around. And that smart universities should figure that out so they don’t accidentally lose good students over silly structural flaws in their financial aid processes.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#328

Post by zeroonetwothree »

nuancebydefault wrote: post #100
shafyy wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where the OP lives. But in Switzerland, where world-class univeristies like the ETH cost something like $ 1.5k a year in tuition, I'm pretty certain that people earn more on average than in the USA.

I live in Belgium, we earn quite a lot less on average indeed. However why would we need so much money? We can go to hospital, or even 20 times visit a dentist for that matter, without expensive insurance and without the fear of bankruptcy. We can have kids without fear of not being able to pay kintergarten.

Kindergarten is free in the US. Also the vast majority of people pay a relatively small amount of their income for health insurance (and of course it’s free for 65+ who are the primary consumers).

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#329

Post by zeroonetwothree »

bdangubic wrote: post #195
nuancebydefault wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think Freedom, the American way, is super overrated. If the cost is misery, fear of loss of health or job, what's left of Its benefits? "I'm the chosen one protected by God"? Or does social security still have this huge connotation with communism? Sorry for my ranting, I just cannot believe what is still happening.

America is “free” might be one of the funniest things Americans believe…

Having lived under a dictatorship I find it very offensive when people claim America isn’t free. Get some perspective please.
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