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Starship Flight 5: Launch and booster catch [video]

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Re: Starship Flight 5: Launch and booster catch [video]

#321
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FAA needs more funding at this point. They're not staffed for the rate of launch requests which commercial space has grown too.

Need to remove regulations instead and fast track SpaceX. Every fucking time we don't need to increase the size of the Government. It only gets bigger. Never smaller.

No, launching big heavy explosive things into space shouldn’t have fewer regulations. That’s insane to think they should be able to just do it without much oversight.

Re: Starship Flight 5: Launch and booster catch [video]

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, reusable is supposed to reduce the cost. But the space shuttle was reusable and it has been shutdown because it was too expensive. What is the differences between the two?

Economy of scale: starship can be "mass"-produced Material: stainless steel is much cheaper Percentage of reusability: boosters of shuttle cannot be reused, maintenance of shuttle itself is also very expensive (heat shields were pricey). whereas the starship stack has higher reuse percentage and allegedly cheaper to maintain.

The shuttle was not even reusable by any modern metric, the main tank was always expended, the boosters had to be recovered, fully disassembled and cleaned.

Re: Starship Flight 5: Launch and booster catch [video]

#323
post #183
post #23

Nothing could have prepared me for how that catch looked. I was sure the rocket was careening into the tower at the last second before it straightened out. The control algorithms must be incredible for the landing system to work within those small tolerances.

MIMO and nonlinear control theories are probably some of the hardest topics in all of engineering. SpaceX control system also has to compensate for the fuel moving inside their rockets so the control algorithms probably involve some kind of fast numerical fluid simulation. Another interesting thing SpaceX is doing is to use consumer-grade chips in triple redundancy configurations instead of using $100,000+ radiation-…

> Another interesting thing SpaceX is doing is to use consumer-grade chips in triple redundancy configurations instead of using $100,000+ radiation-hardened aerospace/defense grade chips.

This has been known in the high availability and safety systems industry for a while and a good book to learn these reliability engineering techniques is "Reliability Evaluation of Engineering Systems".

The book is available on amazon: https://a.co/d/1nH824K

Re: Starship Flight 5: Launch and booster catch [video]

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought the liquid sloshing would be one of the hardest to simulate (considering how chaotic fluid mechanics is). Interestingly, I think this caused the 2nd Falcon launch to fail (the LOX sloshing).

It is difficult, but there are modeling approaches that work, such as VoF ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_of_fluid_method ). Basically, in addition to velocity, pressure, temperature, etc., you store an additional scalar in each cell of your computational mesh representing the liquid's volume fraction. Then, you solve an additional equation to transport that scalar.

Wouldn't it burn most of the fuel to mitigate the effect?

Re: Starship Flight 5: Launch and booster catch [video]

#325
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Improvements that make space flight more sustainable are welcome ... unless that means an order of magnitude more pollution in a less controllable form, like emissions. [Due to more frequent flights] Daily trips to space likely also mean more debris in space and falling to earth. I hope there is a balance that includes the lives of people near these sites and all of us sharing the same atmosphere.

[flagged]

> Considering the safety and prosperity that can be brought online from 1,000 launches / 150,000 tons in orbit, that’s the deal of the century.

Regardless of the (in)accuracy of ChatGPT, you're assuming a lot can be accomplished with those flights. I strongly suspect 600K cars getting people where they need to go has far more utility than 1K flights of anything into / out of NEO.

> Debris is an absolutely non-issue.

Astronomers probably don't want 1000x (or even 10x) as many satelites obstructing their view.

> There is zero environmental downside, only Luddite foot stomping.

Name calling isn't going to help your cause. And the luddites had a good point, they didn't mind innovation. They minded being cut out of the benefits of innovation without any say in the matter.

Re: Starship Flight 5: Launch and booster catch [video]

#326
post #200

What does Starship reusability mean for $/kg to LEO? I know there are longer term targets of $10/kg but that supposes efficiencies that aren’t here yet. Would be helpful to understand before Starship reusability where the state of the art was in terms of $/kg to LEO and where we would be with impending Starship reusability.

I don't think we have a number for it yet. But it will definitely be the cheapest launch system at the time of launch. People say 200$/kg just with booster reuse, and 20$/kg with full reuse. Of course this might be too optimistic, but I truly believe we might reach under 50$ in this decade.

This might be the best time to get into cubesat development as a hobby, lol.

Re: Starship Flight 5: Launch and booster catch [video]

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we have a number for it yet. But it will definitely be the cheapest launch system at the time of launch. People say 200$/kg just with booster reuse, and 20$/kg with full reuse. Of course this might be too optimistic, but I truly believe we might reach under 50$ in this decade.

Even $50 is within "going to the moon for my honeymoon" range. Wow.

$50 is a number for LEO (Low-earth orbit). $/kg to a Moon orbit (or flyby) might be significantly more expensive. Not only that, because it is further so it needs more fuel, but also it is a few days trip which would need a bunch more kilos in provisioning food, water and other things. So yeah, unfortunately not that cheap to have a honeyMoon in the moon (heh)

There is a lot of possibilities to make a trip to the moon cheaper though. If we make LEO that cheap, we can build a lot of infrastructure in the space that would make the tourism to moon more affordable. Like keeping a few starships always in orbit as some kind of space-hotel-metro system.

This will probably take a few more decades, though.

Re: Starship Flight 5: Launch and booster catch [video]

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naive question: I obviously expect there to be flames from the engines, but there were flames on the lower sides for quite a while after the catch – is that expected?

It is common for Starship prototypes to have uncontrolled fires, but it is obviously not a good thing. For example, prototype number 10 exploded 8 minutes after landing [1] because of a seemingly insignificant fire at the bottom. After today's flight there was a long lasting fire in the engine section, with occasional flaming pieces of plumbing raining down from the rocket. Examining the aftermath should help SpaceX…

This same issue was common on early Falcon 9 landings and took a while to fully eliminate.

Re: Starship Flight 5: Launch and booster catch [video]

#330
Why don't they mount moving video cameras? I mean, the second part of the fly is pretty boring. They shows us a view from 2 static cameras. Is it so difficult to make one camera moving? With 360 degrees view. Show us the shape of the earth the full circle, show us the moon. Is it so hard?
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