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Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

reuters.com

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Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#321

Post by mulmen »

runsWphotons wrote: post #313
mulmen wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience “performance” is code for “I don’t like you”. I have never seen a performance metric that isn’t arbitrary and inconsistent. Not just between peers but day to day for an individual. PIPs are just CYA for HR. I can’t speak to these specific situations because I wasn’t there but when managers speak about “performance” they’re using a euphemism for their perception. This can easily feel like racism becau…

In your experience what are legitimate grounds to fire someone?

Theft and fraud.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#322

Post by eric_cc »

steelframe wrote: post #39

I've dabbled in management a few times in my career. This meant attending manager-only meetings and trainings. I'll never forget one time when a manager in a focus group said something along the lines of, "The tech sector is going through a rough patch, so we can turn the screws on our employees and they'll have to take it because they will have a hard time trying to find a job somewhere else." This is at a company w…

> turn the screws on our employees

This is gross..

> I also started looking into every legal protection I had available to me in my jurisdiction.

But so is this. I’d rather quit some crappy place than rely on legal protections.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#323

Post by renewiltord »

MrDarcy wrote: post #307
dathos wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean interrupting is one of the harder social actions in my opinion, especially in the workplace. So much of this comes from culture, family and your personality. I say this as someone who interrupts, and loves to be interrupted. Am I a kid in an adult body, or are my norms different than yours?

That depends entirely on if you ask permission before you interrupt another person.

Not to worry, I usually just say "hi" and wait for them to respond before asking the question.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#324

Post by gwbas1c »

dathos wrote: post #292
gwbas1c wrote: post #283

> But the Australian Industry Group, an employer group, says ambiguity about how the rule applies will create confusion for bosses and workers. Jobs will become less flexible and in doing so slow the economy, it added. Whenever I encounter someone professionally who can't deal with a little ambiguity about when it's appropriate to interrupt someone; I feel like I'm working with a child trapped in an adult's body. "Ch…

I mean interrupting is one of the harder social actions in my opinion, especially in the workplace. So much of this comes from culture, family and your personality. I say this as someone who interrupts, and loves to be interrupted. Am I a kid in an adult body, or are my norms different than yours?

Well that depends on your ability to self-regulate!

Do you constantly interrupt people and prevent them from doing work? If someone says they are busy and need a few minutes, do you ignore them and continue to interrupt what they do? Do you get angry if someone can't drop what they are doing to cater to your impulse?

Do your co-workers feel like working with you is like working with a child?

That is what my children do to me, and that is what "children in adult bodies" do in the workplace.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#325

Post by eric_cc »

red_admiral wrote: post #140

I like the Swiss implementation of this. A manager _can_ contact an employee on a Sunday, but then the employee is immediately on weekend-rate overtime even if they just got an email with "deal with this next week". So, many companies have systems that hold back e-mail sent outside of working hours until the next working day unless specially authorised and costed. Never underestimate an economics-based solution to a…

Overtime rates are not worth being interrupted during time off. I’d rather lose out on money and have my precious time.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#326

Post by nine_zeros »

consteval wrote: post #300
nine_zeros wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because consumers will choose the cheaper option almost every time. Largely true - but the key word is "almost". > You have to turn a profit and the only way to achieve that is exploitation. You have to take labor and pay less than it's worth and pocket the difference. There's no way around it. But this is NOT the only way to achieve lower prices. Lower prices can be achieved by simple things like keeping your empl…

As I've said, you can be less exploitative. You can't be not exploitative. > happy employees Trader joes employees are not actually paid very well. They're paid okay. Also trader joes is not very successful. They're a small niche, only profitable in the whitest and richest parts of the country. > seems rather naive and stupid from a branding and long term return perspective Yes, to an extent. But branding, as I've al…

> You can't be not exploitative.

This is not true. Specifically because you are pointing out that exploitative companies will retain more money than non-exploitative ones and thus not be beaten in competition.

However, it is paradoxically also true that the same competition is beaten merely by high quality - leading to higher margins. Cost cutting is not the only way to squeeze margins.

> Trader joes employees are not actually paid very well. They're paid okay. Also trader joes is not very successful. They're a small niche, only profitable in the whitest and richest parts of the country.

And yet, they are nowhere close to running out of money and have a firm loyalty against cheaper competition. Exploitative cheap is not the only way and you are proving that same point.

> Yes, to an extent. But branding, as I've alluded to, is mostly advertising. The reality of your product is a tiny tiny part of your brand. How your brand is advertised is a much bigger part.

> Trader joes is cleaner, sure, and the experience is nicer. But from a food quality perspective, how much better is it than Walmart or Target? ... not much. I can find produce and whole-foods at both locations and I can live an equally healthy life with a diet consisting of only foods from Walmart.

Yes you can find the same produce at whole-foods or walmart or target. And yet, trader joes survives and is expanding. Once again, you are proving the same point - cheap exploitation is NOT the only way to win.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#327

Post by Drakim »

xivzgrev wrote: post #266
dools wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Early on in my career when I was first put into the position of hiring both employees and contractors, a guy I was working with said "We can ask him for a better price and promise to give him a better deal on the next one", and I said "but we won't have any more work after this one" and he said "yeah I know but we can just tell him that to get a better price". It was one of the first times I realised that people are…

Being a jerk extends all around. As a manager I’ve had two employees tell HR that I was racist. The evidence? One I fired for performance, the other I had on a performance improvement plan. Mind you I had other minorities on my team in parallel that had no performance issues and strangely enough did not say I was a racist. Also one time the HR guy (who also doubled as office manager) ran a large scheme where he claim…

It does indeed extend all around, and I'm sorry you had to go though that. But you have to keep in mind that there is an extreme power imbalance between an employee and a manager who can have them fired, which means the jerk-factor is very much slanted heavily in one direction. For regular employees having those above you abuse their power over you in various ways is often a daily occurrence.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#328

Post by fireflash38 »

hnlmorg wrote: post #202
euroderf wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

No, this is just what happens when capitalism is treated like a religion and thus never questioned nor given safeguards against abuse. This is also why Europe leans a lot more towards legislative oversight rather than the libertarian attitude that the market will somehow magically correct itself.

Even if in a lot of cases the market would correct, it often takes a lot of time, and with a lot of negative externalities. Society bears the cost of that.

Re: Australian employees now have the right to ignore work emails, calls after hours

#329

Post by neom »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #309
neom wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vendor wouldn't have been able to afford the price of the business with the land in the deal, it would have massively complicated chapter 11 if they needed to enter it (they did), given were the company was, reducing tax burden was important (sale was done at near breakeven). Sale+Rent back is a very traditional move in clearing up a business that has very little value and is leaning heavily on a real estate port…

The 6 reliable sources provided, which I trust you read in the 30 minutes between their posting and your reply, speak for themselves. If you can convince all 6 reliable sources I linked, to correct their story, such that it reflects your own personal narrative of what happened, I will believe you. Alternatively, you could provide 6+ equally-reliable sources which explicitly point out that the 6 reliable sources I cit…

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/940944/0000940944140...

https://goldengatecap.com/vereit-announces-sale-of-204-milli...

https://fortune.com/2014/06/30/why-private-equity-investors-...

Darden had a very interesting pitch to GGC, going so far as to secure covenants from franchisees holders in advance to sale+leaseback - GGC in spite of S+LB, obligations, the in fact bought millions more in real estate to try and shore up the stability in locations.

Then here, you'll see it play out: https://bankruptcy-proxy-api.dowjones.ai/cases/Florida_Middl...

Story is considerably more complicated than PE is evil.

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