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Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

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Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#321

Post by LargeWu »

nl wrote: post #236
LargeWu wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additionally, anybody good enough to be prevented from setting a world record because of this pool will undoubtedly have multiple chances in other competitions with faster pools.

This isn't really the case. You need a fast pool and good competition. The Titmus vs Sanders vs Ledecky 400m could have been a world record race in another pool, but there's a pretty good chance we'll never see the three of them race each other again.

Counterpoint: Ledecky has never had anybody even close to her level in the 1500 and she has broken her own WR half a dozen times. I think good competition can help, but that effect is likely far less than pool conditions.

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#322

Post by jacobgkau »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #119
Ylpertnodi wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...would they all have to train the same, eat the same food, etc?

Let's not be intentionally obtuse.

I don't think it's obtuse when you're saying they should be required to wear the same thing while training.

If you want to regulate what they wear for the competition itself, fine. But I don't see how regulating what they wear while training is different than regulating what exercises they do while training, what their diet is while training, etc.

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#323

Post by jacobgkau »

toast0 wrote: post #120
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #102

Well, if this is the case, then wouldn't a person who gets out to an early start have a tremendous advantage over the rest of the group since she'd be swimming largely without interference for the first length of the race while the trailers would have more turbulance? Also, I've never understood why there aren't more standards for Olympic tracks / pools / gear. For example, everyone should be required to train in and…

Identical apparel is a non-starter unless the athletes have identical body shapes, or we're abandoning (US) broadcasting rights to go Olympic Style.

Devil's advocate, body shape's going to affect them while swimming even if they're not wearing anything, so the interaction between the "regulation apparel" and body shape could be considered just another form of that. (I can see how it might not be in the spirit of the sport, though.)

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#324

Post by mrguyorama »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #180
lou1306 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But a lot of the swimmers themselves are not able to go anywhere near their personal bests: this is a sharp reversal from past Olympics, where many athletes reached new personal records. Plus, they are the worldwide foremost experts on competitive swimming. Definitely I would be more interested in their evaluation of a swimming pool rather than trust "research results" from the company that built the pool in question…

> Plus, they are the worldwide foremost experts on competitive swimming. Definitely I would be more interested in their evaluation of a swimming pool rather than trust "research results" from the company that built the pool in question. But they are very prone to psychological effects.

Professional athletes are MORE superstitious than other people, and are prone to serious amounts of bias in how they attribute outcomes.

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#325

Post by MichaelBurjack »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #222
MichaelBurjack wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Covid is a highly contagious virus that spreads and lingers in the air, and we have athletes in close quarters without any virus control procedures [1] (other than the Olympic organizers providing hand sanitizer [2], which is an odd choice for airborne virus prevention). Given lack of testing and that many countries (including European countries) are seeing Covid surges right now, I think it's highly likely that most…

To be clear, there is no scientific consensus on the term "surge". It is purely editorial, in my view. Iff you believe KFF.org, there trend lines show a sharp fall in the last six months here: https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/global-...

Sidestepping nomenclature bikeshedding, healthcare organizations are seeing an increase in patient load which seems like a reasonably tactical datapoint that there's a meaningful increase over the last couple months.

Google is your friend; this [1] is but one France-specific example of coverage. You can find many similar articles in jurisdictions across Western Europe raising concern specifically in the last month or two.

Edit:

Many jurisdictions stopped collecting and/or sharing robust datasets in 2023 (KFF even calls attention to this). This often means digging through opaque reports to get useful data.

Here's an example [2] from the UK government, in PDF format, but bottom of Page 10 looks pretty "surge-y" to me over the last couple months and not yet at peak.

Edit:

Another example of good data horrible to access. Scotland wastewater monitoring [3] I can't provide a direct link; have to click on "Respiratory pathogens" and the first chart is wastewater monitoring; July 2024 shows the highest "surge" in levels since 2022.

--------

[1] https://www.connexionfrance.com/news/covid-19-advice-for-tes...

[2] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66337699cf3b5...

[3] https://scotland.shinyapps.io/phs-respiratory-covid-19/

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#326

Post by Yawrehto »

samldev wrote: post #5

I was a college swimmer, qualified for Olympic Trials in 2012 and 2016. There are absolutely slow and fast pools. It basically comes down to two things: 1. The depth - which is only 7ft in Paris, unusually shallow for a competition pool. 2. The sides. Does the water spill over the sides into the gutters, or smash into a wall and bounce back, creating more chop. A trained eye can see all the swimmers in Paris struggli…

Off-topic but congratulations for qualifying for trials!

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#327

Post by sschueller »

samldev wrote: post #5

I was a college swimmer, qualified for Olympic Trials in 2012 and 2016. There are absolutely slow and fast pools. It basically comes down to two things: 1. The depth - which is only 7ft in Paris, unusually shallow for a competition pool. 2. The sides. Does the water spill over the sides into the gutters, or smash into a wall and bounce back, creating more chop. A trained eye can see all the swimmers in Paris struggli…

Shouldn't that be part of the standard "Olympic Pool" definition? Depth, water height on side and overflow etc. seem to be as important as the nittting of a football goal net.

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#329

Post by MichaelBurjack »

MichaelBurjack wrote: post #126

In addition to physical issues raised (7ft depth, configuration of sides), I wonder if there might be any other reasons that aren't mentioned at all in the article… Something causing these elite athletes to be a bit off their game? Whatever could it possibly be… - https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2024/07/31/us... - https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/team-gb-swimmer-m... - https://www.theguardian…

Now up to at least 11 known aquatic competitors [1]. And most teams aren't testing — for example, Australia brought their own PCR machine; nothing has been provided by the Olympic organizers.

[1]: https://swimswam.com/swimmers-pieroni-and-gatt-join-the-covi...

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#330

Post by AtlasBarfed »

etempleton wrote: post #86
AtlasBarfed wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not give them a choice of Lane?

Everyone would choose the middle lanes anyway.

Tactically this may not be valid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQNY5htc9_k

When the US 4x100m swim relay beat France about three olympics ago (the one where Phelps won all those medals), France was comprehensively faster man-for-man aside from Phelps in that relay.

The US won because Jason Lezak, the anchor, swam in the wake of the final French swimmer (a draft basically) and was able to save energy and pass him.

If the US and French had been separated by a lane, the US would have lost.

If you are slightly faster (and especially if you go out faster) than your #2 rival, you want to have a lap between you to deny them the draft.

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