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Kino: Pro Video Camera

lux.camera

321–330 of 376 posts

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry you ran into that. I distinctly remember testing the 13 mini, due to notch layout issues, so this is unexpected. As soon as the crash reports come in, we’ll dig into that. Unfortunately, while we had a QA person on this, and nearly 100 beta testers, the iPhone camera APIs are a mine field. We’ll get a fix out as soon as we have details.

I heard that the iPhone landscape was not fragmented though.

If you stick to the high level "Hey, take a photo for me" APIs, it isn't a problem. If you want to take advantage of hardware specific features, the iPhone camera system varies from generation to generation, and sometimes within a single generation. On top of this, the AV frameworks have a mountain of undefined behavior which easily breaks with iOS updates. There are tons of iOS and model specific code branches that have cropped up in Halide over the years.

That said, it doesn't hold a candle to Android fragmentation. It's a major reason we will not touch the platform.

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#322

Gotta love Apple's App Store. Search for "kino" and get a competing app as an ad, but then numerous other apps that aren't Kino including a variety of keno games. Search for "kino pro video camera", same situation, but finally find it in position #5 despite being an exact title match. Bravo App Store search team. (The same happened when Threads launched.)

Well they just launched today so I'd assume that is the main reason behind low rankings. It will get up there soon.

Low ranking even on an exact title match though is pretty bad.

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry you ran into that. I distinctly remember testing the 13 mini, due to notch layout issues, so this is unexpected. As soon as the crash reports come in, we’ll dig into that. Unfortunately, while we had a QA person on this, and nearly 100 beta testers, the iPhone camera APIs are a mine field. We’ll get a fix out as soon as we have details.

This looks really promising, hope all goes great! My only concern is reading that you do collect crash reports despite being privacy-focused. How much information is there to identify the picture/video taken or the device/person?

There's two possibilities.

1. They're using the crash reports provided through App Store Connect. These are stack traces with no personally identifying information. You can enable/disable these under Settings > Privacy & Security > Share With App Developers.

2. They're using a third-party crash reporter. Under the covers these are often based on PLCrashReporter or KSCrash. A few such as Firebase (previously Crashlytics) implement their own exception handlers/stack unwinders. These are typically anonymized, but at this point it's the app (or the crash reporting SDK it includes) to decide exactly what to report. Most apps will try hard to avoid PII because that's easier than dealing with GDPR, CCPA, ATT disclosures, etc.

> As soon as the crash reports come in

This leads me to believe it's (1) since third-party crash reporters usually send in the crash reports as soon as the app has restarted, while Apple delays crash reports in App Store Connect. In which case the app itself isn't collecting anything: it's iOS and you choose to opt-in when you first setup the device.

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#324
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the freemium + subscription model usually works so much better money-wise that it's difficult to justify publishing a simple paid app with upfront cost.

I'm totally fine with subscription apps, but the price has to be reasonable. I'm not a video editor so I can't speak to that but here's one example: Most calorie counting apps want ~16AUD a month from me. That's what Disney+ costs and they spend billions of dollars making content. It's 3$ more than Spotify charges and they have almost every song ever made. It doesn't have to be free, or even a one-off cost, but it ha…

I recently discovered Lose It. The pricing is much more reasonable compared to other calorie counting apps - $10USD/year. There's also an option for lifetime purchase but I haven't used it long enough to justify locking in for that much time.

The only annoying thing is you have to get the free app, wait a day or two and then it will offer you the discounted premium subscription.

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#325
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well they just launched today so I'd assume that is the main reason behind low rankings. It will get up there soon.

Low ranking even on an exact title match though is pretty bad.

It's a 4 letter word, commonly used in internet slang to refer to a good film.

I saw the announcement pretty early on and when I started typing in "kino" into the App Store search, the first autocomplete suggestion was the rest of the app's title in the listing "- pro video camera", and if I clicked that one it showed the app first (well, first result after an ad)

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how literally every application I ever purchased prior to 2008 worked...

Can you please give an example please as I never heard of this bs in my whole life

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Photoshop#Version_histor...

New version every 2-3 years which required a purchase. It was a few hundred dollars every time you wanted to upgrade (people may not remember this, but PS was the "value" product when it launched; professional software was often low 4 figures).

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#327
post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This looks really promising, hope all goes great! My only concern is reading that you do collect crash reports despite being privacy-focused. How much information is there to identify the picture/video taken or the device/person?

There's two possibilities. 1. They're using the crash reports provided through App Store Connect. These are stack traces with no personally identifying information. You can enable/disable these under Settings > Privacy & Security > Share With App Developers. 2. They're using a third-party crash reporter. Under the covers these are often based on PLCrashReporter or KSCrash. A few such as Firebase (previously Crashlyti…

Their privacy manifest shows that they do not collect any data. So they are either not using Firebase or similar for crash analytics, or their privacy manifest is inaccurate and should be reported.

We must specify that we're collecting diagnostics (apart from the ones Apple collects on our behalf for opt-in users) even if they aren't attached to PII or user identifiers. So if they're doing this honestly, it indicates they are relying on Apple's opt-in crash analytics exclusively.

In my experience at least 80-90% of users are NOT opted in to sharing usage analytics with Apple, so they won't receive most crash reports unless they're collecting them through an undisclosed backdoor.

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#328
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah all software should be multi platform if possible. Locking programs in to some specific brand is just silly and you don't even need to be a open software extremist to acknowledge that. Also not mentioning the platform anywhere in the title or even article body itself is inheritly deceiving.

I think its okay for people not to do twice the work to support a type of phone they don't care about or use. Who is this deceiving? You figured it out, clearly. I think you're more mad than reasonable here.

From what I've heard about camera APIs, making an app like this for Android would be much MUCH more than twice the work, and also probably would become 98% of your support tickets because X feature doesn't work on the Samsung Galaxy J5 Skyrocket Plus LTE when running a custom ROM from XDA Developers.

Someone from the company said in another thread it's already enough of a hassle dealing with all the possible camera configurations across different iPhone models, and iOS updates breaking things. I think there's a reason you don't see apps like this on Android.

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#329
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Halide is 2.99 a month, or 12.49 a year, and has been a subscription model since 2020. Sure, you have a one-time purchase option, but it is $70. I believe people who bought before the subscription got one year free, but things like widgets aren't supported. So unfortunately, that is likely the same fate for Kino. This post introduces the subscriptions: https://medium.com/halide/introducing-halide-mkii-30f9f2bcea...

I'm fine if I can get a reasonable number of years out of it. I'm not expecting infinite updates forever for $9.99. 1-2y for this would be disappointing but not even a bad deal. On Halide it seems the problem is more "pricing in general" - a 1 year subscription costs more than the one time purchase in this app so naturally expecting get and keep the app plus years of updates is a bit eyewatering for a camera app (but…

Speaking of infinite updates forever, I am frustrated that software publishers and users have come to expect that all software should either be free, subscription-based, or a one-time purchase with permanently free updates. Each of these models can make sense for different kinds of software-based products and services, but they are problematic in the case of standalone tools (such as cameras, multimedia editors, productivity software, etc.) Some of the problems:

a) Free: Due to lack of revenue, the company that makes your favorite tool may stop developing new features, add intrusive ads, sell your personal data, and/or sell itself to a nasty buyer that will end up killing your tool’s future in one of various ways.

b) Subscription-based: Many software tools are naturally products, not services, yet this model can artificially and unnecessarily turn them into services. Users may end up paying too much over the long run, the software publisher is not necessarily motivated to keep improving the tool, and if the company or a future owner decides to kill off the product, you won’t be able to keep using it (regardless of how much more you’d be willing to pay to do so.)

c) One-time purchase with permanently free updates: Though it provides the software publisher with revenue and users may appreciate the ability to keep using the tool they bought forever, the product may experience market saturation at some point, and the publisher may stop receiving revenue from new users. The publisher will not be motivated and/or financially able to improve the program and may be tempted to switch to the subscription-based model.

I really wish more companies would go back to the old-style model where users can buy the current version of a software tool but would need to pay a discounted price to upgrade to a newer version of that tool (a major-version upgrade.) Along with this, customers would get free upgrades for a limited time (such as year) or all minor upgrades during the current major version. I believe this model creates a healthy incentive for a software publisher to keep improving its products while receiving revenue from both new and existing customers (reducing the market-saturation problem.) Unfortunately, both publishers and especially users may have grown unaccustomed to this model and may not appreciate its benefits.

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm totally fine with subscription apps, but the price has to be reasonable. I'm fine with it if includes some monthly re-occurring service, like cloud storage/sync. I purchased YNAB4 and I ran it just fine on my desktop. But YNAB5 went to subscription, and it included things like syncing multiple devices (which of course needs servers, which cost), but I have no need for that, and so I did not move to it. I'd much…

> I'm fine with it if includes some monthly re-occurring service, like cloud storage/sync. What sucks is when the developer adds some recurring service to their software that I don't want, purely as an excuse to justify moving to subscription, and then no longer offers the software without the "service" for a one-time price. For most of the software I use, I specifically don't want to be tethered to some kind of onli…

This is a widespread and recurring problem when a software tool that should be a product gets artificially turned into a service.
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