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When do we stop finding new music?

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Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#321

Post by Tagbert »

dotnet00 wrote: post #283
Thegn wrote: post #224

One problem I've run into with the music services is with older styles. For example, I'm specifically into black musicians from the 1930s-1950s who played swing style music. I have yet to find a service that actually will play more than 2-3 songs in that style before deciding that what I really want to hear is rat pack or swing by white musicians. No matter how much I thumbs down it, I get Glenn Miller/Frank Sinatra/…

The other replies are interpreting this as the algorithm failing, but I have interpreted these sorts of things as intentional design choices, wherein they want the recommender to keep trying to diversify your interests so it's harder for you to just quit the service and move to another one which might not have the same variety (or where you'd have to try to "teach" the recommender again). They've determined that the…

I’ve found that most algorithms tend to reinforce a taste by trying to provide more of the same. They rarely try to bring in something that diverges from the pattern. Of course, the libraries have limits and the algorithms will often match against characteristics that you do not consider relevant.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#322

Post by Zancarius »

doublerabbit wrote: post #169
Zancarius wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you're completely alone, but you're probably statistically insignificant (don't worry, I'm right there with you). Like you, I can't stand the music I grew up with all that much (maybe a few songs here and there), but I went through the trance/electronic fixation in the 2000s. Now it's almost anything that I enjoy, which probably doesn't say much, but I'm presently listening to some chillstep and was lis…

Anecdotally for me it's that music is now more complex the simplicity of older music just doesn't please the senses as it did back then. Kind of the same feeling where you upgrade to two monitors and if you have to use a workstation with one just isn't the same.

You know... this makes a LOT of sense to me.

On the other hand, I really appreciate the minimalism of some modern ambient scores, but I'm not sure me from 15-20 years ago would have had any tolerance of it.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#323

Post by SamBam »

gregmac wrote: post #302
ysavir wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Pandora and I'm able to maintain genre-specific stations pretty well. Sometimes it will try to mix something new in but I just dislike that song and it happily keeps playing the genre(s) that I chose for that channel.

I don't know about Pandora, but I've always been cautious to use "dislike" in that way, because I don't know the scope. There's a difference between "I don't want to ever hear this" vs "I don't want to hear it on this station". I use it for the former but not the latter.

Yeah, the opaqueness of your actions in Pandora and in other streaming services is always annoying.

Likewise, Pandora allows you to create a station with multiple seeds, or (is it the same?) like songs within a station.

I used to use that, and then I felt like it was narrowing the breadth of the station. I realized that in my mental model I wanted it to be a station of Artist A plus Artist B, so a more expansive station, but Pandora seemed to be treating it as "Artist A ∩ Artist B," i.e. just the small intersection.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#324

Post by hedora »

rajamaka wrote: post #301
QuiDortDine wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what you're saying is it's badly designed?

It's badly designed for your particular taste, but it probably works for most people which is why it's used.

I’ve definitely trained tidal that I prefer some pretty whacky sub genres (this Northern European country, but only metal with strong brass sections, or contemporary accordion, hurdy gurdy, and a dozen other clusters like that).

I’d guess if you created a profile and loaded it up with just black swing bands from the 30-50’s, it’d do OK.

If not, and I understand their algorithm correctly, it would not only be because no current listeners make that distinction (as discussed up thread).

It would also be because the metadata doesn’t give any signal for it. They seem to use information such as record labels, song writers, producers, guest musicians, etc.

If that metadata has no signal, then my guess is that you’re trying to get it to racially segregate music that was produced before the big interracial marriage scare.

People were worried that if their kids listened to the same musicians, then whites and blacks (or worse!) might marry, so they created white radio stations and black radio stations.

Before that, I imagine there was a lot more interracial collaboration, and the metadata wouldn’t find clean clusters along race boundaries.

It could also be that the old metadata was never digitized.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#325

Post by Nition »

stavros wrote: post #225
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #106

I must be some sort of freak. I grew up in the 60’s and 70’s listening to classic rock, and a lot of it I can’t even stand any more due to the incredibly small playlists that most classic rock stations use. In my 20’s I started listening to a lot of classical and then jazz. In the 90’s a lot of grunge which’s I still love. After that was trance in the 2000’s, then ambient, techno and IDM after that. I still listen to…

I'm the bane of any recommendation algorithm. They just give me random crap because nobody, not even me, can figure out my taste. I like a little bit of virtually everything, with no rhyme or reason.

I like music with good lyrics, which similarly no algorithm can figure out.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#326

Post by mixmastamyk »

I really enjoy music but realized after trying to follow several hundred artists—and failing that it is merely a question of bandwidth. For example the Doobie Brothers have released new albums post-2020, while at the same time I'm trying to be up on the latest from B. Eillish for a nearby young person. Just can't keep up.

Haven't even mentioned my weirder tastes. At some point something has got to give if you have a job, family, or another interest or two.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#327

Post by SamBam »

nostrademons wrote: post #293
ericwood wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s been a decade at least since I heavily used Pandora but I remember it being even worse than Spotify at this. The algorithm seemed to latch on to one or two tracks from any given artist and they’d continue popping up no matter how I trained it. Great as a discovery tool for artists I guess, but as endless radio Spotify does a way better job at least trying to reach into back catalogs and including more than one o…

You can ban a particular song from appearing on a Pandora station. I've found this to be an effective way to get out of song ruts. The algorithm does have a tendency to replay certain songs more than is warranted, but if you get rid of them it recovers into a state with a decent amount of variety.

I don't necessarily want to ban a song, just have it not play it every tenth song.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#328

Post by nbk_2000 »

tmountain wrote: post #161
cchi_co wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Age has affected my taste in music, but I continue to discover new music Same here... And I became really into the ganre World Music

I also like World Music a lot, and West African blues. Check out Bombino if you haven’t already heard him.

Thanks for the recommendation! Reminds me of Amadou & Mariam.

I'm often saddened by how hard it is as a Westerner to discover modern African music.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#330

Post by SamBam »

noashavit wrote: post #45

I think that it really depends on your relationship with music. I’m no longer in my 30s and still find new music all the time. I wonder why parents consistently listening to older music than their childless peers

For me it's the lack of time or headspace to keep up, and the lack of time to go to concerts. Pre kids we did a lot more of that.
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