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End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

theguardian.com

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Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#321

Post by flir »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #268
flir wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No UK supermarket will guarantee their supply chain for prawns (shrimp) is slavery-free. This in no way mitigates anybody else's issues, but that's an issue that I, personally, wish we could solve (and when we're done with that, maybe we can tackle the calorie laundering that goes on in that industry). I think the problem is that in a globalised economy, a local issue quickly becomes an everybody issue. Am I less res…

Yes. Yes you are. Of course, we are responsible most directly for our own interactions with other people. Less so with other people's bad behavior. You go down the other road, there's an indirect connection to every person on earth. Refuse to deal with everybody and anybody because of that, you're paralyzed. I get it, that was a rhetorical question. Mine is not a rhetorical answer. It's hard enough, dealing decently…

Ignorance is an excuse. But once I'm aware? It seems to me that's the point where I am complicit. Because I could just not eat prawns.

"They enslave their children's children, who make compromise with sin"

I think about that quote a lot. It sets an unachievable standard. But I don't think it's wrong.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#322

Post by yourusername »

avar wrote: post #204
alangibson wrote: post #134

I want to see someone seriously analyze what would happen if there was a power loss to the Line. Hundreds of thousands of people in a glass box in 50C weather with no AC sounds like a recipe for a record breaking mass casualty event.

With the caveat that all published "plans" for the thing were probably meant as a PR stunt the plan called for passively cooling it[1]. That part actually doesn't seem implausible, it's right on the Red Sea, which is quite hot on the surface, but cools down as you you go deeper into it[2]. So (and this is just my speculation) they could have a large undersea pipeline to a depth of say 1km, and use the heat the buildi…

Some of it is right on the Red Sea but the "building" is proposed to be 170 km long. One end of the building will be over 100km from the sea, that's quite a distance to pump cold water without it heating up. Also wouldn't this be like the elevator problem in tall buildings? The first few kilometers of the line will need to have pipes sized for the cooling water of the 165km behind it eating up interior volume. Will pumping water from the sea, passing it through a heat exchanger and then pumping water 150km inland through insulated pipes even be more energy efficient than a AC?

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#324

Post by ImaCake »

keiferski wrote: post #105

Are there any forums like HN but for architecture, and not prone to devolving into sociopolitical criticism, and instead focusing on the structures themselves? I find experimental architecture fascinating and would rather discuss the merits and flaws of the design itself. Neom reminds me of Łódź, a city in Poland that is built around a single 5km long street. It’s quite cool and the simple geometry is aesthetically a…

I find there are corners of facebook where you can find good discussion of some topics. Birdwatching is fairly easy, lots of interesting discussion even on big groups. Public transport is contentious but local city groups often have posts from insiders or serious hobbyists which are high quality. For weather I am finding a mix of subreddits and storm chasing facebook pages to be ideal for avoiding both the doom and gloom and conspiracy crud that comes with that topic.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#325

Post by inslee1 »

benterix wrote: post #219
trissylegs wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Start? Uae is a place known for storing and moving shady money. Very few extradition treatys.

> Very few extradition treatys. Which is also excellent not just for stealing, but also for murder. Half a year ago a German-born Pole killed a family in a car crash and run away to UAE.[0] They tried to extradit him but without success. [0] https://bnnbreaking.com/breaking-news/accidents/suspected-fa...

That article says he was trying to flee to the Dominican Republic, not the UAE.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#326

Post by GeoAtreides »

jasongill wrote: post #230
alangibson wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are we pumping the water if the power is out? I guess they're would be diesel generators for that in reality. We need an engineer to calculate the flow needed because given how far away the far end is from the water that could end up behind one huge generator, not to mention the size of the pipes. It's worth mentioning that they don't seem to be burying any massive water pipes so this isn't likely to be done in r…

Gravity? This is what water towers are for. (not to say that this project isn't a total farce, but at least the issue of pumping water without electricity was solved hundreds of years ago)

How would gravity help pumping water from deep in the Red Sea up into buildings?

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#327

Post by usrusr »

alephnerd wrote: post #183
throwaway63467 wrote: post #102

I think these projects mostly exist to funnel away / launder money, no one really thinks they will become reality. A multi-decade mega project is just a great way to divert large amounts of money without raising too much suspicion as there’s very little oversight of what’s really happening there.

Pretty much this. The companies subcontracted on Neom all had some amount of investment or ownership from either the royal family's fund or the sovereign fund.

But is the money spent coming from different pockets? Doesn't necessarily counter your argument though, could be sovereign fund -> family, with those contractors owned by the source pocket effectively being noops in terms of that funneling.

And even that could still very much be worthwhile, as in generate business for the company, sell off the company to external investors based on those numbers and later phase out the artificially generated demand.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#328

Post by graemep »

oliviabenson wrote: post #182
Simon_ORourke wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> local chiefs who oppose stupid and unrealistic white elephant vanity projects are executed. Let's not gloss over the absolutely appalling respect many of these societies have for human dignity. Public executions and flogging, discrimination and imprisonment based solely on gender, absolutely zero regard for freedom of conscience when it comes to matters of religion. There's only so much you can get away with by say…

We are complicit (if not responsible). Accepted practice isn’t an excuse for indifference but criticising your own country isn’t a free pass to criticise the culture of others without challenging our culpability. If we sincerely want to help the citizens of these countries that we believe to be oppressed, we have options that we choose not to take. We could offer cultural asylum, give people a route to access our cul…

You have just demonstrated the problem with moral relativism.

Not giving people fundamental rights such as freedom of speech or freedom of worship is just wrong.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#329

Post by zaphirplane »

vladms wrote: post #309
zaphirplane wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like abortion rights, let’s see let’s encourage people to hate on Canadians and Americans because the us government has a policy on abortion. To reiterate, having an issue with a government for a specific reason is informed. Hating an ethic group is racism. Ps I’m not from there or live there

The above replies did not mention an ethnic group, rather a geographical area. The main ethnic group in that area is also very present in north Africa, and there is much less general "mistrust" (or negative feelings) towards that area than to the other. Not sure if "geographic discrimination" is in any way better than "racism" but using terms correctly is required for good communication.

Can you name the ethnic group. I’m not as confident as you in saying there is a single ethnic group encompassing gulf to North Africa

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#330

Post by graemep »

Y_Y wrote: post #208
oliviabenson wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are complicit (if not responsible). Accepted practice isn’t an excuse for indifference but criticising your own country isn’t a free pass to criticise the culture of others without challenging our culpability. If we sincerely want to help the citizens of these countries that we believe to be oppressed, we have options that we choose not to take. We could offer cultural asylum, give people a route to access our cul…

Who said anything about America? There are aspects of society in the Middle East that are different and bad. You don't have to be a moral absolutist to prefer that people not be stoned for adultery. And you can't assume that Muslims on average have a "deep sense of pride and duty" about the way their society is run. Sure some do, but they're not aliens with some higher form of existence, they're humans just like you…

> You don't have to be a moral absolutist to prefer that people not be stoned for adultery.

Not quite - but you do need to be a moral universalist.

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