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Goodbye non-KISS appliances

willbush.dev

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Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#321

Post by the_snooze »

EasyMark wrote: post #315
alwa wrote: post #294

One of the happier things I’ve done for myself lately, at the advice of this forum, was to get a rock-solid, dumb, black-and-white Brother laser printer. It sits there and just does its job and I never have to think about it. Does anyone have any tips as to the white-goods equivalents? Fridge, freezer, laundry machines, that kind of thing?

buy the simplest devices you can. I believe whirlpool still makes some models in the USA. Evidently (according to reddit) never buy a Samsung or LG kitchen appliance. Whateve r you do get online (reddit and other places) and look for the specific model you're looking at, never buy on a whim, do research. You can eat out for a couple nights if the fridge goes.

Exactly, simple is good. Software is not simple. Internet-connected software is definitely not simple. If you want anything to work reliably long-term, avoid devices with remote dependencies that the manufacturer will deprecate as soon as they get bored of maintaining them. Anything you want to last more than 5 years should be able to work completely offline.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#322

Post by __loam »

alwa wrote: post #294

One of the happier things I’ve done for myself lately, at the advice of this forum, was to get a rock-solid, dumb, black-and-white Brother laser printer. It sits there and just does its job and I never have to think about it. Does anyone have any tips as to the white-goods equivalents? Fridge, freezer, laundry machines, that kind of thing?

Also if anyone knows a good brand for dumb TVs.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#323

Post by EasyMark »

the_snooze wrote: post #321
EasyMark wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

buy the simplest devices you can. I believe whirlpool still makes some models in the USA. Evidently (according to reddit) never buy a Samsung or LG kitchen appliance. Whateve r you do get online (reddit and other places) and look for the specific model you're looking at, never buy on a whim, do research. You can eat out for a couple nights if the fridge goes.

Exactly, simple is good. Software is not simple. Internet-connected software is definitely not simple. If you want anything to work reliably long-term, avoid devices with remote dependencies that the manufacturer will deprecate as soon as they get bored of maintaining them. Anything you want to last more than 5 years should be able to work completely offline.

Yes, analog stuff can be built tough too. See the vacuum cleaners that still work after 50 years lol, because they were overengineered. That's not nearly as profitable, though. So bean counters (fail early, but after warranty period, fail often) are ever at war with engineers who'd rather make a good product for a fair price. I have heard good things about Bosche but yet to buy anything. I will definitely consider them. I'm not really afraid of things made in Europe or USA, unless internet research proves otherwise.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#324

Post by Nifty3929 »

jfengel wrote: post #300
Nifty3929 wrote: post #291

It's very fun to get angry at appliance makers - but if they actually made the appliances that we think they should, they would go broke because nobody (except a few of us) would buy them. This is how these newer "smart" appliances started taking over in the first place. As evidence, check out some of the manufacturers that do make higher-quality dumb appliances, like Subzero and Speed Queen and notice how little con…

I suspect the manufacturers get stuck in the race to the bottom. Customers want to spend as little as possible, but that makes it hard to choose one low-end device over the other. So they add features that cost very little but attract attention -- even if they make the actual experience worse.

Yes, I think this is exactly it.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#325

Post by noirscape »

alwa wrote: post #294

One of the happier things I’ve done for myself lately, at the advice of this forum, was to get a rock-solid, dumb, black-and-white Brother laser printer. It sits there and just does its job and I never have to think about it. Does anyone have any tips as to the white-goods equivalents? Fridge, freezer, laundry machines, that kind of thing?

Gonna sound very short through the corner, but german brands usually are pretty no bullshit. Also filter out anything that seems like it has a screen (or a more complicated screen than a simple LED panel) and doesn't need it.

Your fridge and freezer don't need any more screens than a LED panel telling you the current temperature and the laundry machine can make due just fine with a LED panel + some buttons and turning knobs.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#326

Post by rpxio »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #201
arter4 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but it's something more for barely any actual advantage. I accept that when I Google something Google and maybe other companies know what I searched, because Googling things is useful. I cannot bring an encyclopaedia and a detailed map of the whole world with me all the time, so it's a tradeoff I can accept. I accept that, on the rare occasions I turn geolocation, someone will know where I am, because if I do tu…

Honestly you are just describing to me more exciting features. The correlations with potential illnesses, etc. Have all of your data piped into single location to use AI to improve your health.

you’re continuing to look at everything from a perspective of an altruistic product to consumer relationship and not the reality the other commenter is trying to describe.

yes it’s an “exciting feature” if your AI fridge can know that you’re pregnant and not recommend recipes that contain certain ingredients. what the other person is alluding to is that the data it has about you specifically will not stay contained between you and your fridge. what if you’re not married and your employer is like dave ramsey and fires women for being pregnant out of wedlock? or you live in a state with much more grim conditions currently around women and miscarriages? what if the meds in your fridge are related to HRT and there are orgs actively buying data to find these people to target them for bullying online (or worse)?

all of your data will inevitably end up in the hands of people that aren’t at all interested in improving your health. they’re interested in extracting value from you and your data or they have ill will towards you.

what starts as “exciting features” leads to your fridge tracking what groceries you purchase and what you consume. then it (or a third party that gets this data) makes determinations about your religion, your lifestyle, if you’re pregnant or not, etc without you knowing.

when every device in your house is collecting and selling off your data as a business model, there’s a significant mental overhead that needs to be expelled to ensure that you are able to keep your life private if you choose to. you may say: “don’t buy the appliances with the feature, then!” once a company can integrate these features effectively and subsidize hardware costs by selling the data, they’ll have other companies competing to offer the same so they can hit those target features and prices. eventually the market is flooded with appliances with these “exciting features” that are just gathering and selling data. in the end, we’ve traded our option to _choose_ privacy for a solution to a problem that doesn’t really exist. personally, i don’t believe the public is currently aware enough to understand the consequences.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#327

Post by ikari_pl »

EasyMark wrote: post #315
alwa wrote: post #294

One of the happier things I’ve done for myself lately, at the advice of this forum, was to get a rock-solid, dumb, black-and-white Brother laser printer. It sits there and just does its job and I never have to think about it. Does anyone have any tips as to the white-goods equivalents? Fridge, freezer, laundry machines, that kind of thing?

buy the simplest devices you can. I believe whirlpool still makes some models in the USA. Evidently (according to reddit) never buy a Samsung or LG kitchen appliance. Whateve r you do get online (reddit and other places) and look for the specific model you're looking at, never buy on a whim, do research. You can eat out for a couple nights if the fridge goes.

Samsung fridge, oven, microwave, and washer-dryer user here.

Only the washer dryer was able to get online, and it's the only appliance that had to be replaced after 4 years, but not because of that. The build quality was so-so, it had problems drying and repair was considered unreasonable (leaky hot air ducts, fast wear on the bearing).

The microwave spontaneously loses screws in the door though

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#328

Post by naravara »

__loam wrote: post #322
alwa wrote: post #294

One of the happier things I’ve done for myself lately, at the advice of this forum, was to get a rock-solid, dumb, black-and-white Brother laser printer. It sits there and just does its job and I never have to think about it. Does anyone have any tips as to the white-goods equivalents? Fridge, freezer, laundry machines, that kind of thing?

Also if anyone knows a good brand for dumb TVs.

I think they’re basically extinct on the high end. Your best option will be to get a smart TV and never set it up with a network connection.

You’ll maybe want to do firmware updates now and then, but you can plug it in temporarily for those. It’ll still do more than you strictly want it to, but the most invasive behaviors will be off the table.

Alternatively you can get a huge computer monitor and use that as your TV. But there’s some issues with that approach. Monitors are designed for sitting closer up and may not have as good viewing angles.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#329

Post by Nifty3929 »

jader201 wrote: post #311
Nifty3929 wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People SAY that want well made, simple things. But people will generally not PAY FOR simple, well made things when much cheaper options are available. You and I might, and many others as well. But the vast majority of folks will not pay more for a higher quality, longer lasting item. Another example is Speed Queen for washers and dryers. They are substantially more expensive and look very plain and even old fashioned…

Most consumers don’t need commercial-level quality for appliances. Those appliances are built to handle much more usage, and for a much longer time. E.g. a washer in a laundromat will be used probably 10x compared to a consumer washer over the same amount of time. Also, a laundromat wants the washer to last as long as possible, probably 20-30 years, but at least 10-15. There’s no reason for consumers to spend 10x on…

I totally agree! In a way, this is my point. For the most part, people are rationally choosing to pay less money for lower-quality, shorter-lived appliances. Because they don't need them to last a long time. There are basically two markets for these things: commercial and consumer. Similar with printers as well, or even power tools. The cheaply made junk that most people (rationally!) buy, and the expensive, well made stuff that only those who care and can afford buy.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#330

Post by CPLX »

alwa wrote: post #294

One of the happier things I’ve done for myself lately, at the advice of this forum, was to get a rock-solid, dumb, black-and-white Brother laser printer. It sits there and just does its job and I never have to think about it. Does anyone have any tips as to the white-goods equivalents? Fridge, freezer, laundry machines, that kind of thing?

If you can afford it get Breville. I was really shocked at how much better quality their appliances were when I got my first one. The microwave controls for example are 10x more intuitive and thoughtful than anything I’d seen before.
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