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Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

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Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#321

Post by Ralfp »

drewcoo wrote: post #118
danpalmer wrote: post #24

This is why we need unions. Layoffs are unfortunately, sometimes, necessary. But when they happen, it's important that the right people are chosen, for the right reasons (whether that's performance based, voluntary, protecting certain groups, ensuring fairness, etc). That requires collective bargaining by representatives who are able to assess and change the criteria, and who are able to negotiate for better outcomes…

> why we need unions Ok. > it's important that the right people are chosen [for layoffs], for the right reasons Um . . . unions? > requires collective bargaining by representatives who are able to assess and change the criteria [for which people are being fired!] Unions? > are able to negotiate for better outcomes for those impacted Unions only do that? I would hope that unions are more than just ways to protect mana…

The difference is that with union you cant pretend you are just firing few randos because they were terrible at their job and you have to come to the union and say „we need to fire 40 people” and union can say „CloudFlare is doing layoffs” and both investors and people on the job market know its propably not a good time for tge CF, despite the CEO boasting about bazzilions made and best year ever.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#322

Post by sporkland »

I think Britt is in the right here calling out Cloudflare for doing a layoff dressed up as performance management. It's a super scummy move.

On the flip side I worry for Britt that you can't record people in California without their consent and now she might get sued.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#323

Post by sporkland »

carabiner wrote: post #204

All they had to do was say: "You're being laid off. It's not due to your performance and it is due to economic conditions affecting cloudflare. We're sorry, here's how your benefits etc. will work out." That's it. They don't need to hug her or be touchy feely. Just be PROFESSIONAL. Tech companies instead try this creepy middle ground (uncanny valley) of quasi-niceness instead of giving it to her straight. Now it's bl…

If they layoff it restricts them in a few ways: 1. Usually you have to pay severance. 2. They can't rehire into the roll for 6-months.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#324

Post by occamsrazorwit »

koito17 wrote: post #112
kqr wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a US thing where the company doesn't want to give any reasons for firing someone because that can be used in a lawsuit against them?

I would say so. This video is a perfect demonstration of America's "at-will employment" culture. It's extremely asymmetrical, too. Companies can fire you at any moment, for any reason (with or without cause!)... yet it is considered rude for employees to not provide ample notice when deciding to voluntarily quit.

Isn't severance basically said notice? If you still receive pay and benefits for a period of time, it's almost like you're still employed while the company minimizes potential damage from laid off employees. It's also considered rude for companies to not provide severance in these sorts of jobs.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#325

Post by etchalon »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #268
etchalon wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a host of laws regarding termination, even in at will states, especially for companies of Cloudflare's size. Giving an invalid reason that is unsupported by facts is generally a strong place for a lawyer to assert "wrongful termination" and invoke those laws.

That's a false accusation. They gave a reason: performance and the girl mentioned to have 0 sales + 3 opportunities. I wouldn't bet a penny on that lawsuit to win.

They gave a reason. That doesn't mean the facts supported that reason. The employee didn't believe they did.

Not closing a deal in your first month of sales is not exactly unheard of or even uncommon.

Either way, WT lawsuits don't generally "win or lose". They settle.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#327

Post by charcircuit »

GBond wrote: post #223
charcircuit wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But she is under an NDA and other agreements from Cloudflare. Being a one party state doesn't mean you can upload private company meetings to TikTok.

Can't fire her twice

But they can sue for damages

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#330

Post by occamsrazorwit »

koonsolo wrote: post #270
sanderjd wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they're people who are also just trying to do a job. I'm sure there are some sadists out there who take pleasure in this kind of meeting, but I'm just as sure that for every one of those, there are a hundred (or a thousand) people for whom this is the worst part of their job, who go home and hug their kids with watery eyes at the end of a day that was horrible for them. You aren't mad at them, you're mad at t…

It's all about the ethics of it. If my employer tells me to call a person and tell them they are fired because they did a bad job, but it's clear that this is not the reason, I would say: sorry, but I'm not going to do that. Remember, it's an "employer", not a "boss".

> it's clear that this is not the reason

In this case, it's not clear that this isn't the reason. That's something the laidoff employee calls out herself; the HR people aren't familiar with her KPIs or work. They don't have any expertise in her industry, and it's unreasonable to expect that.

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