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Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

nytimes.com

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Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#321

Post by resonious »

lapcat wrote: post #162
Galanwe wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should add more nuance I think. While this is a respectable way to see employer / employee relationships, it does not apply to every company / employee out there. In particular, I think this is very true for BigCo, where most people are seen as fungible cogs. The smaller the company, the better.

Don't kid yourself about small companies. Unless you're the owner, you're a fungible cog everywhere. In fairness, anyone can leave at any time. Your employer, regardless of size, has to be prepared for the possibilty that you'll quit for a better job, or for some other reason. It would be inadvisable to get emotionally attached to employees. The reason you're less likely to get laid off at a small company is that sma…

Smaller companies also have a hard time hiring. A bad hire for your 7th employee is way more painful than for your 1000th, and you can't afford to spend to much time interviewing. If employee 7 does a good job and jives with the team, they'd be foolish to throw them out. Though I'm sure there genuinely are many small companies run foolishly out there.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#323

Post by profstasiak »

billy99k wrote: post #105

This is why I hate working as a regular salaried employee. After this happened to me a few years after college, I spent over a decade building up a consulting business. I always keep multiple clients at the same time and I'm not devasted if one chooses not to renew my contract.

anything you recommend to read on how to start consulting practice?

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#324

Post by somedude895 »

oaiey wrote: post #222
mindwok wrote: post #98

I'm surprised to see so many comments here taking layoffs personally, or talking about how layoffs are stupid. Layoffs are not personal, and the corollary to that is that you should never treat your company as a friend. It's a company trying to maximize value. Also, layoffs do work. Almost every large, successful company has done them at some stage. They are an expected, and necessary, part of operating a company and…

It is not the individual layoff which is the issue for the people. It is the general feeling that the little man get squeezed under the argument of cost savings and the rich man takes out even more than the year before, independent of the market and company performance. In the past the entrepreneur took the yearly risks and was rewarded or not for it. The variation / risk on the (unrealistic) return is now managed on…

> and products of the company are a shit show

I guess we'll see if this turns out to be true. If it does, they'll realize their mistakes, and the competitors that didn't let people go should outperform them. If it doesn't, then it'll show that many tech companies simply overhired, which I think we all know they did over the past few years.

I myself work at a telco where business has stagnated over the past decade, due to market saturation and new, cheaper competition. We've had layoffs each year since I started since that's the only way to keep increasing profits. One day it'll probably hit me, but oh well. I know our company has fat to trim and if I'm actually not making any real impact, then I'm fine with looking for a job where I do. Efficient companies are important for a healthy economy.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#325

Post by pbmonster »

odiroot wrote: post #307
lobsterthief wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about it was negative?

They didn't want me to negotiate my offer, after I went through the whole interview process. Passed the message through my prospective boss: "take it or leave it, you can't have it better than people already at the company".

Yeah, salary negotiations in the context of a union contract is a specific skill. Knowing the system is absolutely essential.

The way to go would have been to communicate to your prospective boss that he needs to create a position in a higher compensation tier, or a position outside the union contract. If they want you badly enough, both are possibilities. Especially position outside the union contract are very common once you're a senior/principal engineer.

If it's only a small bump you want (not an entire compensation tier), telling your prospective boss that he needs to take your CV and convince HR that this means you have 15 years of relevant experience will also work - this will get you a high compensation level within your tier.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#326

Post by _heimdall »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #215
unsupp0rted wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it shocking that this is news to anybody, or that this has ever (in the last n generations) not been the case. Your advice is sound: exchange your expertise for money, invest the money, leave.

Quite a few BigCos had a genuine job-for-life culture until the 70s recessions hit. A few managed to keep it going until the 80s. The big cultural change happened in the early 80s as MBA culture became the norm, with a shift towards zero sum neoliberal extremism and the uncoupling of pay from productivity.

We can thank Milton Friedman and Jack Welsh for much of that shift.

Friedman popularized an idea that shareholders should be prioritized above all else and Jack Welsh implemented it at GE, showing just how much profit can be made when you care only about the money/stock.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#327

Post by bluescrn »

whiplash451 wrote: post #165
nly wrote: post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

> Take their fucking money, build a big emergency fund, save, invest. Very sane advice, but unfortunately not always an option. The likelihood of making real (not paper) life-changing money in a few years has considerably decreased in 5-10 years. It will only come back with a good pace of IPOs and investor-positive acquisitions.

Push for IPOs -> 'growth is all that matters' -> future redundancies.

The world needs sustainable businesses, not IPO jackpots for a few and looming redundancies for the rest.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#328

Post by kabdib »

nly wrote: post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

Software guy with 40+ years in the biz here.

Your job never has been safe. Well, not in "big tech firm" territory anyway. I've not gone more than 3 years without seeing some kind of downsizing or shift in strategy or whatever. I swear that companies are like dogs, they roll over and scratch every once in a while, and have layoffs.

Sometimes it's just a distant boom over the horizon ("I hear they're getting killed over in Consumer"), sometimes it's like they line everyone up everyone in your division and boop! every fifth person and it sucks pretty hard.

I won't pontificate on another boring survival strategy, except to observe that I've nearly always switched jobs and technologies after five years anyway. I would be scared for my career if I spent ten years working on one thing.

Sometimes you're saved by smart, sometimes you're saved by lucky, and most of the time you'll be wrong about which one it was. :-)

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#329

Post by _heimdall »

whiplash451 wrote: post #165
nly wrote: post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

> Take their fucking money, build a big emergency fund, save, invest. Very sane advice, but unfortunately not always an option. The likelihood of making real (not paper) life-changing money in a few years has considerably decreased in 5-10 years. It will only come back with a good pace of IPOs and investor-positive acquisitions.

That really depends quite a bit on how frugally a person is able and willing to live.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#330

Post by lapcat »

steveridout wrote: post #48
ricardobayes wrote: post #9

Layoffs are always counter-productive as going forward employees take fewer risks, to evade being the one laid off. Layoffs kill innovation.

Interesting point but I don't think it's that clear cut. Twitter/X seemed to increase the pace of product changes directly after laying of the majority of its employees after Elon Musk took over. Also, when Steve Jobs returned to lead apple in 1997 he fired a significant fraction of the company before starting an incredible period of innovation. So I think a lot depends on the leadership and incentive structures.

> Twitter/X seemed to increase the pace of product changes directly after laying of the majority of its employees after Elon Musk took over.

Changes? Yes. Often superficial changes. Change "Twitter" to "X", change blue checkmarks to yellow or gray or whatever, and sell blue to the lowest bidders. As for improvements? No, I haven't seen Twitter improve much if at all since the acquisition. In fact, the removal of third-party clients for example was a gross vandalization of the service.

> Also, when Steve Jobs returned to lead apple in 1997 he fired a significant fraction of the company before starting an incredible period of innovation.

This quip misses the biggest part of the story, which is that Apple didn't cut its way to success but rather acquired NeXT for over $400 million, a massive investment at the time, and Steve was merely replacing the old guard with his people.

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