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Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

wingu.se

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Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#321

And unfortunately, there is no way to truly turn off WiFi & Bluetooth on iOS devices.

Certainly the button in control center doesn't anymore, but the toggle in settings doesn't do it either?

There isn't any toggles in the settings that fully turns off Bluetooth or Wifi.

Apple knows that it is a nuisance, but their incentivized by their Find My program

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've asked similar questions before and am usually told that this is how Apple does things and it's what makes their users happy. It's in fact why they love and choose Apple. They trust Apple to make the right decisions, and this is in fact a big part of the value add of their products. This is much related to the walled garden approach. For example, ask about why sideloading should remain not an option at all, rathe…

I have to agree with this sentiment, I read it here on HN 'power' users more than once. Although most Apple users have no clue about what we discuss here, the part about actively wanting it is simply not true en masse. Needless to say that's not for me and I will probably keep sporting Androids (in my case I am happy with Samsung's top ultra offerings) since I actually use those added features, ie saving 500 bucks on…

> my wife with iphone pops up browser, I pop up mine with firefox and ublock origin. Internet is utterly useless and horrible place on her phone, while completely fine on mine (plus I get youtube ads blocking as a bonus)

I recently set up NextDNS on my iPhone and browsing the web has become much more usable (previously, I would get webpage crashes!). Something to look into in addition to or instead of Wipr.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#323
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure that’s valid but I’ve worked for mobile app companies and can guarantee features like this are added just to get the entitlement.

I at least partially blame Apple for this too. I personally use several different terminal/Unix emulator/SSH client apps on iOS that request the "background location" permission solely because there is no actual "background execution" API.

That's a design decision. Apple doesn't trust developers in general not to abuse this background API. They expect lots of aid requesting it, unknowledgeable users granting it without thinking much, and iPhones getting a crappy reputation for battery performance as a result.

I dislike this decision (taking a choice away from the user) but from a business point of view it makes sense.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#324
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've asked similar questions before and am usually told that this is how Apple does things and it's what makes their users happy. It's in fact why they love and choose Apple. They trust Apple to make the right decisions, and this is in fact a big part of the value add of their products. This is much related to the walled garden approach. For example, ask about why sideloading should remain not an option at all, rathe…

You’re missing a probably sizable fraction of Apple users that don’t love this, but also don’t hate it enough to switch to something else for that reason alone. It’s very similar to political parties: I have yet to find one that I 100% align with in all things, yet I still vote.

I have long decided my strategy should be "pick the least worst". Much less frustrating if you look at it like an engineering optimisation task.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the renting analogy is a decent one and I’m on the other side of this, so let me give you my perspective. When you own a home, you are 100% liable and responsible. If anything breaks, it’s an unexpected demand on my time and/or an unexpected expense. When you rent, you just call the landlord and say “shit’s broke” and it’s no longer your responsibility. I don’t have the mental bandwidth these days for the une…

> I’ll literally pay a premium for someone to take options away from me rather than have yet another place I need to exercise my self control. Thank you, this makes a lot of sense to me! I'm still on the other side of it personally, but I can genuinely understand this position. So many times these sorts of discussions are so pointless as they go back and forth with things like "you don't have to enable that option if…

Yeah just start with the assumption that “this is an appliance” in my world and most of the rest probably makes sense.

From my point of view and use case, right now the market has two options:

1. A smart toaster with WiFi and Bluetooth that runs modified Linux and uses this functionality to both offer you automatic bread ordering and also spy on your daily toasting habits. But if you don’t like being spied on you can also run aftermarket ToastOS which works on most toasters (though it’s maintained by volunteers and sometimes you update and try and make toast but it never pops and lights a fire in your kitchen). Or…

2. A relatively dumb toaster with a lever and thermocouple. It cannot run custom toast programs. It always makes toast to the exact same darkness regardless of if you want it lighter or darker. If it stops working you throw it out and get a new one because the whole case is glued shut and it’s unrepairable.

Also in this not-so-hypothetical-hypothetical I have literally zero hours in a day to spend on things but a whole big pile of dollarbucks. Also I’m a techie with ADHD and if there’s a piece of broken or annoying technology in front of me I _can_ fix, I will fix.

I’ll pay you extra to solve my toasting problem for me with your dumb appliance so I can get back to migrating workloads off of my EKS cluster on to the bare metal k3s cluster that’s heating up my utility room or rebuilding my garage doors or whatever it is I need to be doing today.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#326
post #88
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish too. I hate it when I don't know why I'm downvoted.

That's the only thing about getting downvoted here that irritates me -- I rarely know why people are downvoting. Sometimes I can infer why, but most often it's just a complete mystery. Knowing why the downvotes are happening could be a useful signal to help me improve commenting in the future. Not knowing why just makes the downvotes informationless noise.

Maybe a choice from a small number of reasons after clicking the downvote could be good? Something like "inaccurate, antagonistic, rule violation".

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#327

Can we talk about the fact iOS/macOS turns on the Wifi and Bluetooth radios after each system update? Almost as if the devices were made deliberately to maximize spying, contrary to the marketing lullabies.

Hanlon's razor: Apple is just lazy and defaults all these things to on, rather than keeping tract of the settings since they are used or needed by 99% of people. Apple loves its Bluetooth keyboards and mice, after all.

I don't think so. Apple likes to collect data as much as anyone else, they're just better at hiding it with euphanisms.

To wit: iOS requires precise location be enabled just to show weather on the home screen; I can't set a static location and just get the weather report for that place.

The whole thing just reeks of willful surveillance anti-patterns.

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