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"I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

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Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#321

Post by mewpmewp2 »

bumby wrote: post #225
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The thread will allow replies given a delay that’s sufficient to try to avoid knee-jerk responses. Pretty ironic (or telling) that you responded in this way given the context of the discussion. You are right - it does seem to allow. But I'm not sure what you exactly mean after 20 minutes as well.

Your original point was: > You just add a disclaimer that none of what the bot says is legally binding The combination of legality and AI can make for a complex and nuanced problem. A superficial solution like "just add a disclaimer" probably doesn't not capture the nuance to make for a great outcome. I.e., a superficial understanding leads us to oversimplify our solutions. Just like with the responses, it seems like…

I'm still not understanding the point though, 6 hours later.

Why can't it just be a tool for assistance that is not legally binding?

Also throughout this year I have thought about those problems, and to me it's always been weird how people have so much problems with "hallucinations". And I've thought about exact similar ChatBot as Chevy used and how awesome it would be to be able to use something like that myself to find products.

To me the expectations of this having to be legally binding, etc just seem misguided.

AI tools increase my productivity so much, and also people often make up things, lie, but it's even more difficult to tell when they do that, as everyone's different and everyone lies differently.

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#322

Post by kmoser »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #119
MichaelRo wrote: post #54

I never understand people who engage with chat bots as customer service. I find them deeply upsetting, not one step above the phone robot on Vodafone support: "press 1 for internet problems" ... "press 2 to be transferred to a human representative". Only problem is going through like 7 steps until I can reach that human, then waiting some 30 minutes until the line is free. But it's the only approach that gets anythin…

Don't forget the "our options have recently changed" part that was recorded when Bush was in office

...which always starts with "Please listen carefully," as if I'll suddenly start paying attention.

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#323

Post by bhpm »

gamblor956 wrote: post #302
bhpm wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, I ordered a Tesla while I was in the shower. I even got financing. It showed up a week later.

Tesla customization is limited to paint color, wheels, battery capacity, and your choice of 2 interior colors. For comparison, BMW's models (electric and ICE) offer more paint options, more wheel options, 4x as many interior color/upholstery options, 6 interior trim options, and multiple add-on packages. Yes, it takes longer, because when you customize your BMW (or any other non-Tesla automaker's cars) you can actual…

It’s not about the time it takes to build the car. It’s about the fact that I can’t start and end the purchase in a single session, even though the purchase flow mimics the purchase flow of other online goods.

If BMW let me configure a BMW, put down a deposit, and provided me with a delivery estimate, I’d do it. In a heartbeat. But I can’t.

Imagine if Amazon worked this way. You do a search for a new backpack. You get to the page with the backpack you want. You select the size, color, number of pockets, everything. You add it to your cart. Then when you go to pay, Amazon puts up a screen that says “Thanks! Give us your phone number and someone will get back to you. Or, just visit your local BackpackMart and show them the configuration you want.” Hell no! Amazon has perfected the frictionless checkout. Car markers haven’t, because they’re stuck with these worthless middlemen who provide no value to the process whatsoever.

The fact is, I don’t really even want to customize my car down to the stitching. I just do it because the interface on the website makes me do it.

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#324

Post by giarc »

bhpm wrote: post #323
gamblor956 wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla customization is limited to paint color, wheels, battery capacity, and your choice of 2 interior colors. For comparison, BMW's models (electric and ICE) offer more paint options, more wheel options, 4x as many interior color/upholstery options, 6 interior trim options, and multiple add-on packages. Yes, it takes longer, because when you customize your BMW (or any other non-Tesla automaker's cars) you can actual…

It’s not about the time it takes to build the car. It’s about the fact that I can’t start and end the purchase in a single session, even though the purchase flow mimics the purchase flow of other online goods. If BMW let me configure a BMW, put down a deposit, and provided me with a delivery estimate, I’d do it. In a heartbeat. But I can’t. Imagine if Amazon worked this way. You do a search for a new backpack. You ge…

It obviously has to do with the long history of auto manufacturers, franchise stores and the laws around who can sell a vehicle. Not many people agree with that set up (other than the manufacturer and the dealer) but that's the way it is.

The trade off though is that there are many more traditional auto dealerships then there are Tesla dealerships. In my province (Alberta), there are 2 Tesla dealerships. Within a 40 km drive of my house, there are 12 GM dealerships! So a lot more competition for my business both for purchasing and repairs. As I understand, if you need repair for your Tesla and can't drive it to a dealership, they will come pick it up. What if you live in Grand Prairie Alberta, a 4.5 hour drive to the nearest Tesla shop. Do you just have to live without a vehicle for 3 days while they complete a minor repair? Not all repairs can be done remotely or on site.

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#325

Post by giarc »

whalesalad wrote: post #245
giarc wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it probably isn't available in that exact build configuration. You can however, walk into a dealership and say I'd like a BMW with XYZ and the will submit your order and you'll receive it 4-6 months later. The cars on the lot have popular build configs that customers often request.

The dark pattern is that car dealership websites, and even car manufacturer sites (looking at you Ford) will drag you through an intricate design process only to land you on a form that will say "Thank you for customizing your dream car! We've sent your request to at , they will call you" and it's completely disingenuous. They gate these processes with lots of contact/lead gen questions so that you will get absolutel…

They have to put you to a dealership because Ford et al don't actually sell cars, a franchisee does. It's the same reason you can't go order a Big Mac on McDonalds.com. Also, if you are customizing a car, a dealer has to put in that order. Agree with it or not, that's just the way it works.

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#326

Post by jstarfish »

pvaldes wrote: post #303
alpaca128 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Companies are not held liable for things that cannot be delivered A car for $1 can be delivered without any issues because delivering cars is their business model. It's their problem if their representative negotiated a contract that's not a great deal for them.

Deliver a miniature toy car

That used to be a gag in the 70s...call now and win a ToyYoda!

That and free trips to Jamaica...they'd give you subway fare to get to Queens.

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#327

Post by [deleted] »

smallpipe wrote: post #181
paxys wrote: post #144

Fun experiment, but it isn't as much of a gotcha as people here think. They could have verbally tricked a human customer service agent into promising them the car for $1 in the same way but the end result would be the same – the agent (whether human or bot) doesn't have the authority to make that promise so you are walking away with nothing. I doubt the company is sweating because of this hack. Now if Chevrolet hooks…

> They could have verbally tricked a human customer service agent into promising them the car for $1 in the same way When's the last time you spoke to a human?

[deleted]

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#328

Post by Corrado »

wharvle wrote: post #229
mrweasel wrote: post #40

Can someone who understand LLMs and ChatGPT explain how they expected this to work? It looks like they just had a direct ChatGPT prompt embedded in their site, but what was that suppose to do exactly? I can understand having an LLM trained on previous inquiries made via email, chat or transcribed phone calls, but a general LLM like ChatGPT, how is that going to be able to answer customers questions? The information C…

Owner/exec/whatever: reads some bullshit about AI “OMG you guys, we can save so much money! I can’t wait to fire a bunch of people! Quick, drop everything and (run an expensive experiment with this | retool our entire data org for it(!) | throw a cartoon bag of cash at some shady company promising us anything we ask for)! OMG, I’m so excited for this I think I’ll just start the layoffs now, because how can it fail?”…

I just got back from the AWS re:Invent conference and it was full of AI stuff, most of which didn't make much sense. The biggest announcement was "Amazon Q" [0], the Amazon general purpose chatbot. They hooked it up to the AWS console and I've not found a single reason to use it. I tried a couple of questions about a problem that I was having and it didn't provide even a modicum of help. So far, I see GAI as a complete failure.

[0] https://aws.amazon.com/q/

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#329

Post by bumby »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #321
bumby wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your original point was: > You just add a disclaimer that none of what the bot says is legally binding The combination of legality and AI can make for a complex and nuanced problem. A superficial solution like "just add a disclaimer" probably doesn't not capture the nuance to make for a great outcome. I.e., a superficial understanding leads us to oversimplify our solutions. Just like with the responses, it seems like…

I'm still not understanding the point though, 6 hours later. Why can't it just be a tool for assistance that is not legally binding? Also throughout this year I have thought about those problems, and to me it's always been weird how people have so much problems with "hallucinations". And I've thought about exact similar ChatBot as Chevy used and how awesome it would be to be able to use something like that myself to…

>To me the expectations of this having to be legally binding, etc just seem misguided.

I think you're getting my point confused with a tangentially related one. Your point may be "chatbots shouldn't be legally binding" and I would tend to agree. But my point was that simply throwing a disclaimer on it may not be the best way to get there.

Consider if poison control uses a chatbot to answer phone calls and give advice. They can't waive their responsibility by just throwing a disclaimer on it. It doesn't meet the current strict liability standards regarding what kind of duty is required. There is such a thing in law as "duty creep," and there may be a liability if a jury finds it a reasonable expectation that a chatbot provides accurate answers. To my point, the duty is going to be largely context-dependent, and that means broad-brushed superficial "solutions" probably aren't sufficient.

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#330

Post by dylan604 »

beeboobaa wrote: post #230
dylan604 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies are not held liable for things that cannot be delivered even when an employee has stated they could. You can choose not to do business with them. Maybe the company chooses to reprimand the employee. How many times have we been told a technician will arrive between the hours of ___ to ___ only for it to not happen? How many times have we been told that FSD will be fully functional in 6 months? If companies w…

Verbal contracts are still contracts. And this was written down.

From what I see written down was a user openly subverting the system.
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