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Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

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Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#321

Post by vunderba »

jacquesm wrote: post #275
butlike wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Case: I create a painting. When it's done I say: "yes, this represents how I feel, and I want to share it." Case: I create a painting with a prompt and when it's done I say: "yes, this represents how I feel, and I want to share it." What's the difference?

That you created a prompt, not a painting.

This 100%. I'm amazed that people somehow are unable to distinguish between the craftsmanship of a painting, and writing a prompt that an external system uses to paint.

What I always emphasize is that if the input and output are sufficiently divergent then your sense of accomplishment at the resulting creation should be proportionally diminished. But what do I know? People use ChatGPT to write a story and midjourney to illustrate it, then make a viral post with the caption "I just wrote a book in under 24 hours."

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#322

Post by Slow_Hand »

jchw wrote: post #294
jmathai wrote: post #291

The older I get, the more I appreciate craftsmanship. Applies to nearly everything. Lately, I’ve been sitting in a chair and listening to records - not doing anything else. There’s a connection to myself, the music and the artist that’s different than when I’m listening on Spotify with my AirPods on. To each their own (I mean that) but I do wonder sometimes…At some point, what’s the point?

Some of this generative AI stuff is going to raise some interesting questions. Right now a lot of it is rough around the edges and distinctly inhuman. However, I do believe that even if we're not entirely on the right track, there's not much reason to believe a machine can't do human-like things as well as humans with enough computational power. Here's my guess: I think that this stuff will continue to iterate until…

I would argue that this has already happened and it's only a matter of degree now.

The widespread availability of DAWs, streaming services, and music distribution services has greatly enabled people to create and publish their music online. Not to mention services like Splice which enable the purchase and curation of ready-made musical loops. It's never been easier to make a record, render it, and distribute it.

Of course the problem then becomes one of sifting through the endless pool of releases. There's a lower ratio of quality signal to noise. So be it. I still get the majority of my recommendations from people who I trust to have good taste.

I happen to think this enabling of creation is a net positive because it breaks down barriers for people to be creative and I consider that to be an intrinsically rewarding activity. At the end of the day creators still need to have good taste and discipline to see their vision realized or succeed, but the act of creating itself is beneficial to people on a personal level. Even if their creation is objectively hot trash.

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#323

Post by amarant »

allturtles wrote: post #237
amarant wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a indie game developer, this could plausibly enable me to add decent sounding soundtrack to my games. I couldn't afford to pay a proper artist, and my musical skills are... Limited.. It _is_ just a tool, a new instrument essentially, one that is easier to play than most. People being angry that there is now a new instrument that is much easier to play than the one they spent years to learn come across as entitled…

So what do you think will happen when the indie-game-making AI is released?

Oh that would be so cool! I could finally give all my game ideas a shot, even the more weird/experimental ones! As it is now I have to consider expected payout divided by expected effort, and a lot of ideas are just non starters because they're simply too big to finish for me.

Financially, well I'd expect people as an aggregate would keep spending about the same amount of money, so I don't think the proverbial pie would get any smaller, though it might change who gets a piece and how large that piece is.

Guess what, such is life! Even if we, for the sake of argument, imagine that the existence of such an AI is 100% guaranteed to render me personally unable to make any money whatsoever from making games, that's a price I would be willing to pay! I'd have to work with something less fun but I'd keep making games in my spare time just for fun anyway.

It's not like making a living from our passions is some god given right, It's a privilege! And if that privilege is the cost for making my passion more accessible to everyone, that's a price I'd pay in a heartbeat. I can't wait to make reality out of all my ideas, and I can't wait to see what others are going to make with it either!

It's already one of my bigger regrets that I don't contribute more to open source resources that would make game development easier for others, I just can't find enough time and energy for it.

From the consumers perspective, I expect there'd be a lot more to choose from. I imagine the quality of indie games would rise immensely. Heck gamers could even just use the AI to make a custom game tailored for their own tastes from home, how sweet would that be? Might that make the pie smaller for pro Devs? Sure, it might, but who cares! It also might not! Who knows?

The one thing that is guaranteed from such an AI is that awesomeness goes up. I want it!

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#324

Post by raincole »

bregma wrote: post #157
jamesdhutton wrote: post #80

In "Brave New World," all the music is made by machines. We are approaching that dystopia. For me, much of the pleasure in listening to music lies in appreciating the virtuosity of the musicians. It's like watching a great tennis player or a great dancer. You admire their skill and grace and technical mastery. For me, listening to music made by machines would be like watching robots playing tennis, or robots dancing.…

It's only a matter of time now before sports and other performance entertainment are replaced by generative AI.

The opposite. Performance entertainment, especially sports, are least likely to be replaced by generative AI.

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#325

Post by peebeebee »

squarefoot wrote: post #320
peebeebee wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could have said the same thing about a synthesizer. Look how that revolutionised music. AI is just another tool. This is just the beginning. People will use these tools in extremely creative ways.

The not so subtle difference is that synthesizers and drum machines don't play by themselves, or when they do (arrangers) they're 100% recognizable from a real band. AI will change everything.

Not that much difference. You used to have to gather 4 musicians to form a band, pay for recording studio, record an lp, and tour to get your music out. This took years to get that sort of creativity out. Now you make a song on your laptop with some existing samples, and release it to SoundCloud. So it takes much less technical and theoretical knowledge to create a song than 70 years ago. This is just an extension of this. You will have loads of people making subpar music with AI, but you will also have incredible innovators using that technology to form new music genres. Happens each time we get a new tool. PEOPLE will use AI. AI alone can’t set up a nice production, or play on festivals. :)

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#326

Post by zerbinxx »

Slow_Hand wrote: post #322
jchw wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of this generative AI stuff is going to raise some interesting questions. Right now a lot of it is rough around the edges and distinctly inhuman. However, I do believe that even if we're not entirely on the right track, there's not much reason to believe a machine can't do human-like things as well as humans with enough computational power. Here's my guess: I think that this stuff will continue to iterate until…

I would argue that this has already happened and it's only a matter of degree now. The widespread availability of DAWs, streaming services, and music distribution services has greatly enabled people to create and publish their music online. Not to mention services like Splice which enable the purchase and curation of ready-made musical loops. It's never been easier to make a record, render it, and distribute it. Of c…

Yeah the democratization era is already well underway: arguably over, even, in that it’s no longer possible to become a “big star” from throwing together some shit in fruity loops and hitting it big. Every once in a while, a bedroom musician with a little talent will break through, but more and more music is either relegated to “good taste but unknown” or “weird conglomerate of ghostwritten tunes operated by a Hollywood finance group”. AI might as well already exist. Half of what you find on soundcloud is low effort/low skill/low expression anyway. Which I think is great.

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#327

Post by helboi4 »

butlike wrote: post #273
helboi4 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it undermines all human achievement to allow one company with their close source AI model to devalue all other products in the market at a speed previously unprecedented to man and honestly incomprehensible (could take literally less than hours), without us being able to monitor it.

What are you scared of?

Humans becoming basically obsolete and our whole system of society collapsing allowing only the owners of closed source AI systems on incredibly expensive servers to make money, throwing the rest of us into destitution.

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#328

Post by helboi4 »

amarant wrote: post #277
helboi4 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are exactly why this is a problem. By creating demand for this soulless music we will be inundated by it everywhere. Also all small musicians will basically have to give up because no-one will even bother to save up to pay them. Absolutely trash mindset.

I already can't pay them, so nothing changes in that point. I don't know why it makes you so angry that I want the best tools imaginable to make music, for my games and otherwise? I promise you won't be inundated by the music I create, and no-one will force you to listen to it. The mindset that you have the right to dictate what tools I can and cannot use to express myself via music is downright dystopian and extreme…

I understand that you can't afford it. I have been a poor hobbyist before. I've been so poor I had to try and do all my projects on an overheating piece of hot garbage government issued laptop and I felt very hard done by for being someone with expensive hobbies that only rich people could afford to actually excel at. But there are free music options. AI is an existential threat to our very right to expression as human being and you should not vote with your money for it to wipe out creatives as a fellow creative. There are also struggling amateur music producers out there who are attempting to get good and make a break. They don't deserve to be drowned forever by a machine.

As humans, the fundamental way we derive meaning from life is creation. The purpose of automation has always been to allow for humans to have more space to be creative, as this is really what we excel at and enjoy. If we insist on replacing our creative functions with machines, we will make ourselves obsolete, apart from the few CEOs who own the massive servers that nobody else can afford to own and closed source super-powerful AI systems. Even if you think these ghoul-like assholes would actually care to help the destitute masses whose jobs have rapidly become obsolete on an unprecedented scale that our economy cannot handle, humans require meaning and goals to survive. If we have to all just be kept alive by server owners because our passions are made irrelevant by mass producing robots, humans will die out just from the psychological stress. This is a real thing, one of the top indicators of long lifespan is older people retaining passions, goals and some level of work.

This is of course all worst case scenario stuff I'm talking about here. But I struggle to see an argument for how allowing AI to take over every aspect of our society would not lead to plenty of horrible consequences.

Your convenience is not worth it, I'm sorry.

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#329

Post by bigbluedots »

djkoolaide wrote: post #309
DrSiemer wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The requirement to either pay a lot for or learn how to do mastering always seemed unnecessary to me. Stuff like mixing, equalizing, sidechaining and eternal sample hunts all take a lot of time as well... It's why making music is one of the hobbies I had to let go. Can't wait to get my hands on an AI powered DAW that skips all the tedious stuff! Am I still the one making the music? Well, I'd argue the 300+ hours I'll…

While the mixing process is certainly a frustrating one, it’s also the part I’m most addicted to. I mix something almost every day, whether it’s my own work or other multitracks “acquired” from the internet. It’s so much fun working backwards on a song I’m familiar with and going “ok, how the hell did they make the kick sound like that?!” and figuring it out :)

Where can one find multitracks on the internet?

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#330

Post by helboi4 »

amarant wrote: post #323
allturtles wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what do you think will happen when the indie-game-making AI is released?

Oh that would be so cool! I could finally give all my game ideas a shot, even the more weird/experimental ones! As it is now I have to consider expected payout divided by expected effort, and a lot of ideas are just non starters because they're simply too big to finish for me. Financially, well I'd expect people as an aggregate would keep spending about the same amount of money, so I don't think the proverbial pie wo…

So what's the job that you'd be hoping to get to sustain your hobbies that is immune from AI takeover. Please tell me?

I am a creative type that became a commercial SE to actually fund my lifestyle. I don't expect to just make money from creative hobbies just because I want to, so I have gone for a job that is in high demand. But AI will eventually learn to code well enough. Then there will be no demand for software engineering, one of the few job markets that even has this level of demand and high employment. So what's the next avenue for us when that job becomes obsolete.

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