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Why do people still use VBA?

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Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#321
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the user. I use the basic VBA components to build my own features (exactly how I want them). I'm happy that Microsoft isn't meddling.

The lack of basic functionalities like generics, sort functions, lambdas, is a hinderance if you got a taste of .net.

It's a hindrance to -us- but I suspect for code that's designed to be passed from SME to SME that -not- having access to features so you have to write things the ugly stupid way ... may actually be an advantage, since the next SME along only has to have a sufficient tolerance for 'ugly' rather than an understanding of the features you and I would both want.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#322
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the user. I use the basic VBA components to build my own features (exactly how I want them). I'm happy that Microsoft isn't meddling.

The lack of basic functionalities like generics, sort functions, lambdas, is a hinderance if you got a taste of .net.

Sorting is fine in VBA. But, I admit, it'd be sweet to have lambdas.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#323
post #184

– It’s built in. – The IDE is built in. – The syntax is beginner-friendly. – It’s stable and doesn’t change every six month. – It’s well-documented. – No build steps, it just runs, and fast. – It’s resource-efficient (CPU, RAM). – You can easily create dialogs and forms using the built-in visual GUI builder. – You can break into the built-in debugger from your Office document. – If you want to get fancy, it has inter…

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Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#324

Let's face it: IT is the bureaucracy department of modern times which can keep itself 95% busy with self inflicted problems and has 5% service orientation. Processes are opaque for outsiders and typically not helpful. I really had to lough when I read the following description of the IBM BPM but this sums up a good part of the issue: "...while IBM BPM does come with a REST API, this REST API is borderline useless to…

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Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VBA serves an awesome niche. I once built an awesome simulator that did some pretty complex optimization stuff. The main sheet had input cells for the user, a couple of radio buttons for toggling certain features, and a button to fire off the built-in Excel solver plugin and pull certain values from that process and display it all on a GUI on the first sheet. It took me just a couple of days despite zero VBA experien…

> button to fire off the built-in Excel solver plugin and pull certain values That's pretty cool. VBA is terrific for glue code. Back in the day, before the Internet opened up the security hellmouth, ActiveX was pretty great for use cases like yours. Early '90s, I made an in-house cost estimation app using Access 2000. It'd extract data from our MicroStation (belch!) CAD drawings to generate budgets and bill of mater…

What a small world. My wife is a MicroStation guru (civil engineer), but not a programmer. I've often wondered about how to make CAD work more productive.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you call monkey hammer is actually the “golden hammer,” or “law of the instrument.” Idk if that matters to you, but it’s an already defined thing. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_instrument

I'm pretty sure they were referring to the established aphorism "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

Crossed with a thousand monkeys and a thousand typewriters.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the following at least twice: some department manager (marketeers typically have a nack for this) needs something, can't or won't bother the development team and starts off with "how difficult can it be" and before you know it they've written a few hundred lines of VBA, which serves their needs. But then, the next phase starts: that scripts gets copied over (because Jim wanted to run it too) and modified (J…

> Now it's a 1500 line kludge and they want to unload it, ie pass it over to development for maintenance. ... and THAT should be considered a GOOD THING! It means you've got a tried and true business case for the application, the requirements capture has already been done, you've got an instant user-base and a very clear bar to jump over. Of course, the application must be able to outperform the old application in ev…

You are absolutely right that the VBA prototype should be seen as a blessing. But no matter how you approach an IT development request - upfront or after the VBA prototype is created - the problem is always the same. IT wants a very, very long time to create something, or allow for the slightest change once created. And lots and lots of emails and meetings before any functionality even might become available (of course, complete failure is a very real possibility).

There is no way for the IT customer to negotiate this "correctly". It always leads to the same result.

The problem is IT exists to administer computer systems, not to help business people create or maintain software. This brings the wrong mentality and skillset.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#328
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you started using water in, like, industrial or agricultural quantities I guess the town would eventually get curious what is going on.

Well, you'd still be paying for it. Authorizing use would be akin to the pre-Carterphone ATT model where only pre-approved uses would be allowed ('you can't attach your equipment to our network'). Thankfully, we eventually realized that was a dumb decision and moved to something closer to user freedom + network protects itself + zero trust. Better to just guide behavior at the pricing level, and let people make their…

I think the analogy to water use just doesn’t work well.

If we had to make some sort of water use analogy, I’d go with something like; the corporate network is a somewhat protected environment that needs to be maintained to be useful. So it it is more like a reservoir than a faucet.

It would actually be OK for a couple people to go swimming and even pee in the reservoir. Some people could even boat in the reservoir, if they went out of their way to make sure that their boats are clean, safe, no pollution, etc. But lots of places just have a general “don’t go in the reservoir” rule. Not because a person would damage it, but because everybody doing it would.

It is hard as a residential user to use enough water to damage the reservoir, but hypothetically if you managed to, somebody would check in. Even if you are paying, the town doesn’t want to run dry. If there is a drought, residential users might be asked to use less water.

Price doesn’t work as a signal in corporate IT for individual workers, because it is expected that the company will “subsidize” the worker to the extent needed to do their job. If we want to make the analogy work—at least in some areas, landlords are required to provide water to their customers. In that case, you can use as much water as you want for free, but your landlord will get curious and might find some way to get you on the hook if you pass some reasonable threshold.

You can also do some things as a user like dump toxic waste down your toilet. This would be sort of like running a publicly visible unpatched XP system on the network. It would damage the system, and why do you have that in the first place?

Anyway, that was fun to write, but I don’t know that it is particularly useful. In order to make the analogy fit, we need to bring in as much complexity from the water management system as the IT system has.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a great way to go, but unfortunately the reality is often the folks go off and write stuff in the non-supported way. The business gets dependent on it, and then years later -- because IT is there to support the company overall -- IT gets stuck supporting it even if long ago they said they wouldn't. Sure, you can have an internal political fight, but it only goes so far when everyone there is supposed to be wor…

I've been on both sides of that kind of situation, and IMO when an IT department gets that calcified, it's a sign that their days (or the company's days) are numbered. Either the non-IT staff will get fed up and replace IT, or the non-IT staff won't be able to get their work done efficiently and the company will fail. The non-IT staff build those things because they've identified a way for the company to improve itse…

To me, it's a pressure release/ROI question.

There are tons of incredibly beneficial computing improvements that it doesn't make sense to spend IT resources on, because there are better ROI opportunities for them to focus on.

But! That doesn't mean the things they can't handle aren't valuable.

My preferred method is (1) require documentation (using a standard template) on all processes implemented by non-IT (what it does, how it does it, what value it delivers to the company, what the fallback manual process is, etc.), (2) store these process docs in a centralized location, which then becomes IT's backlog, and (3) any change control / regulatory requirements.

The grand bargain is then:

   - Anyone is authorized to improve processes, if they generate the documentation

   - IT has the authority to force decommissioned of an existing solution *after* they've delivered a working replacement
That seems to align everyone's incentives more clearly on "the good of the company."

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#330
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. My friend automated his whole job in Excel. He supposedly can do a days work in fifteen minutes and then just hang out. Their computers are super locked down, can’t install anything, can’t go to any non-whitelisted sites, but they have Excel.

I always read those “X automated their job, finishes it 15 minutes and then does whatever” and wonder how true are they? How could it be that nobody notices or cares?

It's been going on for a long time.

In one of his memoirs, the science fiction author Arthur C. Clarke recalled his days as a young man working for the British bureaucracy (something to do with teacher pensions, as I recall). His particular job involved consolidating huge lists of figures into reports. He observed that the numbers in the reports were rounded to two significant figures, well within the accuracy of his slide rule, and started using the slide rule to do all his work.

He could finish his daily quota before lunch and take every afternoon off.

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