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Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

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Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#321

Post by wnevets »

diggan wrote: post #316
wnevets wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For some context, it’s important to understand the degree to which Bandcamp’s success and ubiquity with independent music is built on a people-first, anti-corporate culture. That is why I'm wondering if the new owner doesn't care about what makes basecamp work and just wants to use all of basecamp data for its "AI" business. Otherwise you're left with another owner who doesn't understand what they bought. https://w…

> just wants to use all of basecamp data for its "AI" business Which data specifically? The music itself belongs to the artists and labels, which leaves us with the user activity data, but that must be acquirable much cheaper with larger amount of data elsewhere. Also the data would be tailored to indie/electronic music, rather than applicable to pop music, so the usefulness of even user activity data seems kind of l…

> The music itself belongs to the artists and labels,

As if not owning the data has stopped AI companies in the past.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#322

Post by jcpst »

brian626 wrote: post #271
jcpst wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts too. This is going to be tedious for those of us with larger collections… too bad there doesn’t seem to be a way to bulk download from my library.

One solution to this, albeit a fairly technical one, can be found here: https://github.com/Ezwen/bandcamp-collection-downloader . I've been using it for years to download my library in FLAC format. There are also a bunch of GUI tools that claim to download libraries (search for "bandcamp downloader") but I haven't used any of them.

I was hoping someone would chime in with something like this. Thank you!

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#323

Post by chimeracoder »

ramesh31 wrote: post #307

I'm the most pro-union person you'll ever meet, but this is so cringe. Strikes work when you can shut down a factory and physically keep the scabs from getting in with a picket line. Not so much when you're a remote tech worker who can be instantly replaced by an equally competent third-worlder for $2/hr. You gotta know where your bargaining power lies, or you're just being an idiot.

> I'm the most pro-union person you'll ever meet, but this is so cringe. Strikes work when you can shut down a factory and physically keep the scabs from getting in with a picket line. Not so much when you're a remote tech worker who can be instantly replaced by an equally competent third-worlder for $2/hr. You gotta know where your bargaining power lies, or you're just being an idiot.

You can't call yourself "the most pro-union person you'll ever meet" if your opinion is equivalent to "unions are only appropriate for those who already have structural power".

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#324

Post by chimeracoder »

tchbnl wrote: post #29
Kiro wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic sold it to Songtradr.

Yes. They acquired the company for no logical reason, did nothing with it, and then dumped it rather than spin it out because they don't care and want their money back. Epic ruined it.

> They acquired the company for no logical reason, did nothing with it, and then dumped it rather than spin it out because they don't care and want their money back.

They acquired it to use as a tool in their antitrust lawsuit against Google.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/04/epic-games-drags-ban...

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#325

Post by sickcodebruh »

dimal wrote: post #299
sickcodebruh wrote: post #209

For some context, it’s important to understand the degree to which Bandcamp’s success and ubiquity with independent music is built on a people-first, anti-corporate culture. Bandcamp is an obsession for a very large and engaged segment of the independent music world. A good friend, a professional musician, told me “I feel like I’m watching my childhood home burn to the ground.” This is far from a unique sentiment. Pe…

Thank you for making this a public benefit company. We need more companies to follow this route to protect against future enshittification. But with public benefit corporations, I’ve been wondering, is it possible at some point for the board vote to change to some other type of entity, like a C-corp? And what rules are in place to enforce that it is working in the public benefit? Cory Doctorow talks about using Ulyss…

My understanding of it (and IANAL) is that while the board could potentially vote to change it, the shareholders can take legal action for failing to pursue the public benefit obligations. I can't say whether trying to remove the public benefit obligation alone is grounds to bring a suit, but I think they'd be able to make a case for it. My hope is that being a PBC will scare off predators and encourage like-minded people from day 1, leading us to a point where a future board is made up of people who are 100% committed to the mission from the start.

That's a long way of saying what you said: I want it to protect against future enshittification. I want it to work.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#326

Post by beedeebeedee »

MrPatan wrote: post #306
banannaise wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because unions protect everyone in ways that don't directly relate to pay scale. They help defend against abusive time-off, on-call, or surveillance practices, advocate for pro-worker policies like parental, bereavement, and sick leave, help prevent employees from being fired for using these benefits...

The scarcity of your skillset will protect you. Nothing else can.

That's a bleak perspective that is not borne out by the facts. The greatest source of protection for any individual is the group.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#327

Post by stuaxo »

gizmo wrote: post #205
mhandley wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understood correctly, they are claiming that Epic effectively laid off everyone and sold some of the assets to SongTradr. SongTradr then made offers to half the previous employees. As these people were not previously SongTradr employees, SongTradr hasn't laid off anyone because of their union activities - they didn't employ them in the first place. At least I expect that's their argument. Seems like the way the…

Firing everybody and only re-hiring the meek employees is a classic union-busting tactic and plainly unlawful.

"Fire and rehire" in the UK British Gas (former gov owner entity, privatised) tried this in 2021.

They were told if they didn't sign a worse deal they would be fired, causing a fight with the union.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#328

Post by plussed_reader »

yoyohello13 wrote: post #304
sickcodebruh wrote: post #209

For some context, it’s important to understand the degree to which Bandcamp’s success and ubiquity with independent music is built on a people-first, anti-corporate culture. Bandcamp is an obsession for a very large and engaged segment of the independent music world. A good friend, a professional musician, told me “I feel like I’m watching my childhood home burn to the ground.” This is far from a unique sentiment. Pe…

Someone makes something awesome that people love, it gets bought by a giant company, the giant company extracts as much value as possible and discards the corpse, someone makes an awesome new version. This is the software lifecycle.

So why am I still using and recommending VLC? Because it doesn't have to be that way.

In before the true scotsman of software lifecycles.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#329

Post by mattmcknight »

gruez wrote: post #193
willcipriano wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Buying things out of pocket" was such a smart tactic from the union. Have each teacher buy a box of pencils for a few dollars and complain loudly so people think you are spending much more.

If that's the case why don't we see school boards have expense policies to shut them up?

They do in many cases, it doesn't help because it's such an easy PR story. They just ask for more. The objective can never be "stop this group from wanting more money" because human desire is infinite.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#330

Post by diggan »

wnevets wrote: post #321
diggan wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just wants to use all of basecamp data for its "AI" business Which data specifically? The music itself belongs to the artists and labels, which leaves us with the user activity data, but that must be acquirable much cheaper with larger amount of data elsewhere. Also the data would be tailored to indie/electronic music, rather than applicable to pop music, so the usefulness of even user activity data seems kind of l…

> The music itself belongs to the artists and labels, As if not owning the data has stopped AI companies in the past.

Exactly! So why would a AI company who want the music itself bother themselves with buying the company first? Just scrape it like everyone else.
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