Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015) • Hacker News Board

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#321

Post by jeremy_wiebe » Sun, Oct 15, 2023, 5:12 AM UTC

conor- wrote: post #121

jeremy_wiebe wrote: post #93

My issue, as a driver, is that more and more pedestrians walk wherever and whenever they want with complete disregard for their environment. I’ve had to hit the brakes pretty hard on several occasions when I had “right of way” (right turn light, for example) and a pedestrian stepped off the curb with their face buried in their phone. I see the fines for jaywalking as a function to encourage safety rather than crimina…

My issue, as a pedestrian, is that more and more drivers are driving with complete disregard for their environment. I've had to jump or run out of the way on several occasions when I had "right of way" (crosswalks or stop signs, for example) and drivers accelerate right through with their face buried in their phone. This problem also exists when cycling on shared bike gutters where oblivious drivers veer out of their…

Here in Vancouver, I see bad drivers, cyclists who don’t abide by the rules for cyclists, and pedestrians that are also a careless.

I don’t disagree that there are bad drivers, but unfortunately it’s the cyclists and pedestrians who pay the highest price for either their or a drivers negligence.

So if I’m a pedestrian, I’m going to make sure the cars are stopping before I step into traffic. Doesn’t matter if I’m right or not, I don’t want to be dead.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#322

Post by jeremy_wiebe » Sun, Oct 15, 2023, 5:23 AM UTC

joeman1000 wrote: post #130

jeremy_wiebe wrote: post #93

My issue, as a driver, is that more and more pedestrians walk wherever and whenever they want with complete disregard for their environment. I’ve had to hit the brakes pretty hard on several occasions when I had “right of way” (right turn light, for example) and a pedestrian stepped off the curb with their face buried in their phone. I see the fines for jaywalking as a function to encourage safety rather than crimina…

The difference is that you’re cocooned in a tonne of steel, hurtling along at speeds which kill pedestrians. The onus is on both parties to be vigilant, but it’s more on you as a driver. As soon as you get over this entitled view, like the road is your own little go-kart track, it’s so much easier to drive safely. I used to hold the same view until I started walking regularly and could understand how much the game is…

Contrary to your characterization of me, I’m a cautious driver. What in my post led you to believe I’m entitled?

> Their environment is unescapable and every time you interact with a road as a ped. there’s a huge chance you might die.

I’m not excusing bad driving, but when I walk, this is plenty enough reason for me to be doubly cautious. I don’t trust any driver until they’ve stopped.

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#323

Post by jeremy_wiebe » Sun, Oct 15, 2023, 5:26 AM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #136

jeremy_wiebe wrote: post #93

My issue, as a driver, is that more and more pedestrians walk wherever and whenever they want with complete disregard for their environment. I’ve had to hit the brakes pretty hard on several occasions when I had “right of way” (right turn light, for example) and a pedestrian stepped off the curb with their face buried in their phone. I see the fines for jaywalking as a function to encourage safety rather than crimina…

That's the thing. If it weren't for the prioritization of auto traffic, crossing the street at arbitrary places and times would still be "sensible behavior". Everything you think you know about cities and the role of pedestrians is wrong -- a distortion introduced by auto companies to diminish walking and public transport and encourage automobile purchases. We are currently radically rethinking our cities and imagini…

So are you also arguing that pedestrians crossing at arbitrary places and times across a busy bike path is also something that is sensible behaviour?

Re: Automakers invented the crime of jaywalking (2015)

#324

Post by tremon » Sun, Oct 15, 2023, 10:04 AM UTC

dm319 wrote: post #166

jcynix wrote: post #11

If you cross the street "near" a red traffic light, that costs you 5€ in Germany. If you admit that you did it intentionally, the ticket price doubles. Happened to my wife some years ago when walking to a bus stop on the other side of the street. How did the cop know that it was intentional? She remarked that there was no car in sight, neither left nor right, on a straight road in town. Oh, and what's the definition…

The law in the UK has just changed to explicitly give priority to pedestrians already crossing the road, particularly in the context of a car turning off a main road and finding pedestrians crossing the road.

In NL (IIRC, it's been twenty years since I've had to learn the laws of the road): crossing pedestrians on city streets have priority over cars, except within 30 meters of a crosswalk. The rationale being, if a crosswalk is that close a pedestrian can reasonably be expected to detour and take the official path. However, elderly people/people with disabilities have priority everywhere.

In the case you're describing, a car turning off a main road encountering crossing pedestrians, isn't considered a special case in NL: straight traffic always has priority over turning traffic, and if a car encounters pedestrians while turning that implies the pedestrians were going straight ahead so they already had priority by default.