Earlier quoted context omitted.
By that chart, the IPv6 rollout will be basically complete by 2030. I suspect it will speed up near the end though as the first few services start to go V6 only.
I mean, that's nice to think about, but are you going to spin up a service that's v6 only? I sure as hell wouldn't want to be the canary in that coalmine...
AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B
321–330 of 480 posts
Re: AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because there are only 4.3B of them possible, and we've not done the best job of migrating to IPv6. Said another way, AWS owns approximately 3% of all IPv4 addresses.
I understand that they are limited, but that doesn't explain why are they sought after? Essentially, how are they better than IPv6 addresses?
https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-...
Re: AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
Any solution to the 4->6 transition that assumes that all devices of some class (be it clients, servers, or middleboxes) moved to IPv6 at once is deluded and would not work. There was no way to make the transition to IPv6 without dual stack. The problem was much more that the precise dual-stack approach was not well thought out, when it should have been a fundamental part of the IPv6 RFC itself. Any ISP who wishes to…
ipv6 has been around for nearly 30 years. > Any solution to the 4->6 transition that assumes that all devices of some class (be it clients, servers, or middleboxes) moved to IPv6 at once is deluded and would not work. 464xlat allows communication from ipv6 only clients to legacy ipv4 ones without the need for a separate stack on your end device nat46 allows communication from a legacy v4 device to a modern v6 device…
> nat46 allows communication from a legacy v4 device to a modern v6 device without the need for a separate stack on your end device
How does that work if your ISP doesn't support IPv6? Can an OS developer deliver IPv6-only OSs to any end user? How about v4-only VPNs? Ultimately the answer is that devices must support both IPv4 and v6 until the day only one remains. Keeping both active at the same time may be more optional, but there is plenty of software which assumes IPv4 at other layers than simple connectivity. So running IPv6-only is generally a bad idea even today.
Re: AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
These arguments always boil down to these two: "Please just try to fit more than 4 billion numbers into 4 bytes" -- this is mathematically impossible. "Just extend the address size" -- this is an entirely new protocol by the definition of IPv4, which uses fixed-size addresses. The reason for the slow IPv6 adoption is that there was no financial or business pressure. While IPv4 is ubiquitous, nobody individually feels…
Everyone is always quick to complain that we're going through N number of NAT gateways or N number of proxies, but this is virtually never a problem for most of the Internet. Even despite this rats maze of proxies and NAT gateways we're still supporting virtually all the applications that consumers use and love such as VoIP, WebRTC, HTTP(S), DNS, Gaming, Streaming Video, Mobile Apps, etc. NAT seems to always get a ba…
A CGNAT is a stateful component which makes it expensive to operate. Failover to a backup is hard, as is scalability with this kind of components. And then there are legal requirements. You have to know what user had which IP address at a given time. I'd rather invest in dual stack instead.
Re: AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B
#325fwiw, ATT charges me $15 for ~8 fixed ipv4 addresses on my gigabit plan. Even if we amortize against the total monthly bill of $113, we get ~$15 per IP. EDIT: I guess this is the cost to _rent_ an IP per month and not the cost of _owning_ an IPv4 address.
$30 for a /27 on ATT. Totally worth it.
Re: AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
Vint Cerf has called the decision of it being 32 bits as silly and arbitrary, like having a car odometer with 40 digits. If he had pushed for more, he thought nobody would have taken him seriously. The idea of 32 becoming scarce was laughable. Also the complaint about ipv6 isn't a technical one, it's a usability one. Extending it to 48 bits would have been easy enough for people - like international calling. Those 16…
I think this is absolutely one of the reasons. Addresses are very hard to remember in ipv6. You usually just have to remember the first 3 parts of ipv4 and then change the last digit based on the host you want. IPv6 I know it has shorthand but still it doesn’t register in my brain the same way.
The most recent anonymous editor to the IPv6 address article on Wikipedia has address "2602:FBF6:0:0:30C6:7069:6DF0:FD24". An IPv4-like notation of that would be "9730.64502.0.0.12486.28777.28144.64804".
Re: AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
My ISP has one of the better options where you can permanently lease an IPv4 address for a deposit of $100 AUD. The lease is indefinite, and when you don't want it any more you get the $100 back.
> you get the $100 back. It doesn’t account for inflation?
Re: AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B
#328Re: AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
> IPv6 is as backward compatible as is possible within this constraint. Yikes, couldn't disagree with that more. There are a ton of things that ipv6 designers could have done to make the transition much easier. This is a (now quite old) blog post that is my "go to" that explains a lot of the problems with ipv6: https://cr.yp.to/djbdns/ipv6mess.html FWIW I couldn't find the link to that post until finding it on one of…
It's not like people didn't think of that when IPv6 was discussed. It was something like a decade from when the first IPng proposals came to when the proposals which looked like today's IPv6 came. Bernstein was certainly part of that discussion, at the later stages, and the document you link to reflected that. It was just one of many counter proposals that influenced what became IPv6. Some people seem to suggest that…
I do not mean no changes at a binary level, but at an administrative level. An upgraded "A" record for example so that DNS admins could go about their day somewhere between completely and largely unaware that the protocol was undergoing transparent upgrades behind the scenes while preserving administrative compatibility with all existing configuration files, source data, and user interfaces. In such a scheme it would be quite important that there only be one "A" record from an administrative point of view, not different ones like A and AAAA. Admins need to be insulated from the binary protocol changes going on behind the scenes.
That means that the new address format would need to be compatible with the old one, and of course a routable embedding of the current address space be provided in the new address space. That means existing routing prefixes would have to be preserved indefinitely, complete with the routing table explosion that was a major challenge a couple of decades ago.
All routers would need to be upgraded over the transition period to handle a new frame type that supported current addresses, extended addresses, and a single routing table with larger extended address sizes. It is quite important that there be a single routing table, not two of them. Same configuration file, same everything from an administrative point of view for a decade, while older hardware was gradually replaced with new hardware that had extended capabilities that would be dormant on the public net.
Comparable and in some cases less transparent updates would need to be made to programming APIs, and to the Berkeley socket API in particular. Not to require programmers to do everything for two different layer 3 protocols, but rather to allow them to do it once and have it work with current and extended addresses, transparently from an administrative point of view, not doubled configuration for anything.
There are many other things that would need comparable binary behind the scenes upgrades that would be administratively compatible and not affect current network configuration files, and in particular not require anything to be duplicated from an administrative point of view. No one does that and no one wants to for protocol extensions that are not actually usable yet. It doubles their workload with no short term benefit, and does so indefensibly.
And then after all these extensions and capabilities have been designed, implemented, and transparently deployed across essentially the entire Internet without requiring large scale administrative intervention - a process that could easily take a decade - would the first extended addresses with non-zero bits in the extension fields actually be usable and globally routable in both directions. The entire network would be ready for it, it would be a dormant capability unused until that day arrived and requiring no large scale intervention when that day arrived either, because the silently upgraded network would remain administratively compatible with the old one.
Re: AWS IPv4 Estate Now Worth $4.5B
#330Can we go back in time and hit the designers of IPv6 upside the head? The decision not to make IPv6 backwards compatible, the belief that a beautiful new standard could magically replace something already so widespread... "Naive" is an inadequate word. We are still futzing with the transition 3 decades later, with no end in sight. Grrr, grumble...