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How would you say “She said goodbye too many times before.” in Latin?

latin.stackexchange.com

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Re: How would you say “She said goodbye too many times before.” in Latin?

#321

Post by saaaaaam »

lynguist wrote: post #277
saaaaaam wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious about why you've added what I assume are stress marks in the Latin. I studied it (admittedly, a while back) all my way through school and have never once seen this used, including in this poem. In no way a criticism of me trying to make a thing about it - is it an American thing?

They’re length markers. There’s also the rarely used ˘ to show that a vowel be read short instead of long. At least in my gymnasium in Switzerland we had the length markers for all the words, from the very beginning, and in all texts we read and all grammar forms we learned.

Interesting. We were just expected to learn it or work it out!

Re: How would you say “She said goodbye too many times before.” in Latin?

#322

Post by sproffle »

hnben wrote: post #318
sam0x17 wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's funny about it though is as an English speaker who knows no Japanese but often enjoys reading subtitles, I'd much rather see the weird literal translation so I know "oh, this is some cool idiom in Japanese" rather than translating it to boring English idioms. Like I get much more out of the meaning when I see the raw original idiom literally translated, and I prefer that. I think we take for granted that idiom…

10 years ago there was a big fight/shift in the anime translator scene about exactly this. More literal translations with long translator notes were common back then, but eventually the less literal translation won as anime became more mainstream.

all according to keikaku. TN: keikaku means plan.

Re: How would you say “She said goodbye too many times before.” in Latin?

#323

Post by murphyslaw »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #259

If we're just trying to translate the literal meaning of this sentence from English to Latin, these are good answers. But I suspect that if we went back to ancient Rome and found someone experiencing the meaning behind these words (a guy talking about a girl who has said goodbye too many time, and he doesn't believe that it's going to be final this time either), the actual phrase he says may be completely different.…

Given that this is meant to be poetic it is likely that a Roman would have said it in Greek, which was considered a more "cultured" language than mere boorish Latin.

Re: How would you say “She said goodbye too many times before.” in Latin?

#324

Post by eszed »

jakear wrote: post #247
eszed wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the context, as I'm not familiar with that song. Isn't the grammatically correct rendering of that line "she _has_ said goodbye too many times before"? (Present Perfect, right?) Now I'm curious to hear the recording: is there a sibilant, "she's"? Edit: Several others made the same point below. I'll leave this here, but they were first. /e

There's no audible difference between signing "she's said" and "she said", the s's blend together. Any possible difference would be entirely obscured by stylistic choices. Even vocalizing normally the difference is hard to tell. Try saying "She said I love you" vs "She's said I love you" – unless you make a point to completely stop in between words there's basically zero distinction.

You're right, and I thought of that about an hour after I'd posted that comment. D'oh!

Re: How would you say “She said goodbye too many times before.” in Latin?

#325

Post by naishin »

lampiaio wrote: post #287
phendrenad2 wrote: post #259

If we're just trying to translate the literal meaning of this sentence from English to Latin, these are good answers. But I suspect that if we went back to ancient Rome and found someone experiencing the meaning behind these words (a guy talking about a girl who has said goodbye too many time, and he doesn't believe that it's going to be final this time either), the actual phrase he says may be completely different.…

The point you raise is one of the things most people -- professional translators, even -- get very, very wrong when translating (books, movie subtitles, game dialogue, you name it). "How do you say 'phrase' in [target language]?" is more often than not a much worse approach than "What would a native speaker of [target language] say if they found themselves in the same situation?".

There are several translations of Harry Potter books to Russian language. Some translations keep names a is - Longbottom or Ravenclaw. While others translate them to Russian. There is (or rather was) so much love and hate about both options.

Re: How would you say “She said goodbye too many times before.” in Latin?

#326

Post by Obscurity4340 »

lampiaio wrote: post #287
phendrenad2 wrote: post #259

If we're just trying to translate the literal meaning of this sentence from English to Latin, these are good answers. But I suspect that if we went back to ancient Rome and found someone experiencing the meaning behind these words (a guy talking about a girl who has said goodbye too many time, and he doesn't believe that it's going to be final this time either), the actual phrase he says may be completely different.…

The point you raise is one of the things most people -- professional translators, even -- get very, very wrong when translating (books, movie subtitles, game dialogue, you name it). "How do you say 'phrase' in [target language]?" is more often than not a much worse approach than "What would a native speaker of [target language] say if they found themselves in the same situation?".

Given this fact, one of the most amazing things to me is when a song can be translated relatively faithfully and while preserving the rhyme structure. It just blows my mind to listen to a song in another language with English subtitles and have it line up close enough to the English and still rhyming in their seperate tongue.

Re: How would you say “She said goodbye too many times before.” in Latin?

#327

Post by sul_tasto »

ToDougie wrote: post #294
academia_hack wrote: post #100

I'm really sad at how much Latin I've managed to lose since my school days. It's really an incredible language and this stack exchange post shows some of that versatility. Because the words in Latin contain dense grammatical information in their spelling, you can be much more flexible with word order. This gives classical poets the ability to do crazy things with word ordering to create "word pictures" where the stru…

Incredible post, I really appreciate you taking the time to share. Are there any resources that you have enjoyed over the years for learning Latin or engaging in material written in Latin?

this is a great resource https://geoffreysteadman.com/

Re: How would you say “She said goodbye too many times before.” in Latin?

#328

Post by Rietty »

academia_hack wrote: post #225
viciousvoxel wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not parent but yes; related meanings (e.g. hate/torture, ask/know) and typically same part of speech (e.g. both verbs or both adjectives), and the lines having similar (but here reversed) sentence structure (another commenter posted the wiki link to Chiasmus which goes into more detail. The structure we see here is x0 and y0, ...z0 / z1... y1 and x1.

Exactly this! It gets even cooler in this example too because the meter for "Odi et amo" elided to "Od'et amo" directly parallels the scansion for "excrucior" (long syllable, short syllable, short syllable, long syllable). So the two concepts that start and end the poem (love+hate, and torture) are also linked by how they are pronounced. Incidentally, that linkage is also the message of the poem itself. These two lin…

Do you have an example of Ovid's that make Catulus look like an amateur?
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