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The boiling frog of digital freedom

gazoche.xyz

321–330 of 467 posts

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#321
There are huge economic interests driving the tremendous advancements in mobile computing hardware and software. The same economic interests are leading to creation of things like private-access-tokens and web env integrity as a way to differentiate themselves and to protect their business models from external existential attacks on them.

The alternative economic business models have been applied to build open-source hardware and software stacks that preserve this sense of digital freedom. But the result is a stack with vastly inferior capabilities and experiences.

Now, someone can demand I want the capabilities and experience of the former with my notion of digital freedom. But unfortunately there's no economic model that would make that work and there aren't enough users who care deeply enough about this to create the economic motivation needed to force the change.

Most voluminous usage of Internet by most number of humans is not via web browser anymore. It is via mobile apps. This means more restrictive and intrusive things than WEI have already happened and they haven't noticed or didn't care.

In the late 2000s, we built a strong cryptography based privacy preserving secure mesh network and node software for organizing and sharing your personal digital collections (photos, videos, emails, documents, messages etc) and got no traction in the market. Nobody cared about the privacy and security aspects. A few years later unencrypted cloud backups and cloud hosted personal data services became not only normal and accepted but actually preferred and so we gave up on our vision. (We also got a nice and tidy exit via acquisition). Many years later, after many data breaches, Snowden revelations etc, some of us thought people would care now, but alas no, they still don't. Without this basic economic motive force, any such attempt to fight against this will miserably fail.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but I maybe feeling "off" today, but we should all be beyond kindergarten political philosophy. Anarchy is what it sounds like - awful and not some middle class libertarian utopia. Yes we need government. And these days we need government to roll up its sleeves and be government. We know you cannot arrange the bread delivery for London through one department but you can force privatised water companies to i…

You're not feeling off. You simply don't understand that basic morality means that you cannot force others to do what you think is right for them to do. You want to find a way to get others to do what you want. This is immoral - you do not want others to have or exercise their freewill. And you want to use other people to force your opinions via police, legal system, etc on others. Put simply you think anarchy is a p…

Nah. I want to rule the world of course. But I would far rather setup a system of democracy to rule the world with everyone else than let some other bugger be king instead of me.

And I believe in actual government - government that builds roads to deliver food on, government that agrees ways to make researchers to discover medicines and hospitals and nurses to inject them, and governments that force companies to label their food with their ingredients (or their ISP adverts with their fees). I call this real government. not the arguing fools on TV. We can argue how much much of it is too much. We are. But I refuse utterly that "doing real government" is immoral, that any attempt to agree common standards is tyranny.

I believe that the real moral failing is to chip away at real government so much that services collapse and harm is done to real people. We can look at failed states like Niger or Haiti in horror, but we can also look at the mismatched life expectancy across our own rich countries and ask why?

I reject the idea that we can roll back government so much we can lose driving licenses and just be more careful out there, that we can ignore food safety standards and just look at the restaurant kitchen carefully. I reject libertarianism because it knows as much about the real world as central command economics.

I want government run on empirical data with justice and equality at its heart.

I am happy to accept the grey areas, will stand up for democracy will argue we can always do better. But buggered if it's because I secretly yearn to control your life.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#323
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This blew my mind as a younger person who took an interest in repairing tube radios from the 30's & 40's. One of the first things I realized was how generally easy it was to find schematics of popular brands and models. Some were even pasted right inside the radio shell! I also hack and repair modern stuff, and it is so common to open up a product just to end up staring at an epoxy blob. User manuals hold no mention…

I wouldn't say they are intentionally spiteful, just that modern electronics are complex enough, especially highly integrated stuff like smartphones, that the OEM's suppliers would be unhappy if detailed schematics were released. Since they would not be willing to guarantee on the record that they are correct, nor would they want stuff impinging on actual trade secrets to be revealed.

Fuck their trade secrets.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#324

One factor this ignores is that there already exist tens of billions of general-purpose computing devices capable of running arbitrary code. They aren't going to magically disappear. They've already been made and they can't be unmade. Given enough nuisance, people would just stop upgrading. We've already seen this with Windows itself — I know people who are still, in 2023, using Windows 7 daily for the simple reason…

The requirement of a TPM in w11 will make companies throw millions PCs into shredders in 2025 with the EOL of w10. Of course there will be enough PCs to go around for practically forever, but the march of time is not going in a direction that you and me will probably like.

That TPM requirement is artificial and is easily bypassed though. But then big corporations would probably not do that for the fear of angering Microsoft.

It just makes me angry that Microsoft seems to have no clue what they're doing now. They seem to put their own agenda above all else. They base their system requirements on their misguided vision, not on the actual technical requirements of their software.

And ReactOS is still unfortunately as far from being usable as it's ever been.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#325
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“I blame the people.” Psychology is a science that studies human behavior, and like all sciences it works mostly. As a result, human minds can be easily hacked by those with the motivation to do so. Psychological science can be employed, things like A/B testing are very effective with enough data, which our digital systems easily provide. Ads are the wholesome version of that, because they are overt. We know the ads…

My takeaway from social psych was that it was far easier and cheaper to convince 2 ignorant people than it was to change 1 educated person's mind. Which boils majority democracy down to the median level of education.

considering technology is evolving faster than humans, using technology to exploit the unchangeable stupidity of humans seems like the winning move

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all about milking and rent-seeking: greed. Every device/vehicle/system now needs to be connected to the internet and needs you to download an app. Is that for the consumer? No. That's for the manufacturer. For milking be reselling your data and/or spying on you and/or charging extra because they can and/or the capability to turn any device into literal trash by not providing updates or bug fixes to a half-baked…

>Blame your government. There could and should be laws against that or at the very least incentives to prevent it. In a democracy the government is a proxy for the people. I blame the people. If the majority was conscious of their rights (or at least what these rights should be) the governments would have no choice and they'd bring laws that protect these rights. Yes, no democracy is perfect, there are lobbyists, cor…

> They'll sell their privacy and rights gladly for a tiny bit of perceived convenience, entertainment or status.

How does that mean they have no spine? It sounds like they made a decision on what was more valuable to them. You could argue that they might not have been fully informed. But I think the reality is that they just don't care that much because they don't feel harmed by it. The segment of people that are going to even consider trying to repair a digital device rather than paying to get it fixed or getting a new one is probably vanishingly small (and very over-represented on this site).

I could easily see things going the other way, where the lack of digital privacy becomes even more of an unquestioned norm. These things can hold in a kind of equilibrium as long as the entities that hold the power don't use it to cause perceived harm above a threshold. We have the technology to do a lot more scanning of license plates, facial recognition, automated speeding tickets, etc. I'm kind of an optimist in that I think people will generally maintain this balance (or maybe a pragmatist - it's not really in their interest to upset the apple cart, but they will test the limits sometimes).

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#327
post #196

The other day I read an HN comment that thought that when you buy consumer PC hardware, it comes with a ToS that limits your property rights as the owner. It's the kind of uncanny experience I run into more and more often lately: talking with people so immersed in our new normal of cyberpunk dystopia, they seem not to remember how things were in the before-times. So accustomed to exploitative corporate gaslighting, w…

General purpose desktop computing isn't dead yet. It's still available - but barely. Now is the time to save it, or it will be gone soon. The same thing happened to TVs. There are nearly no 'dumb' TVs that doesn't do anything more than just display the video signal. All the 'smart' ('over-smart' is more appropriate) TVs out there take too long to start and they almost always phone home to their overlords. The really…

If you are big TV brand player, the way it works is you go to a contract manufacturer and say you want to do a TV. They will tell you what options you have – what sizes, features, quality levels etc (configuration) and at what price they will sell to _you_ at different order volumes and the timelines for them to deliver to you. The offer you get will not be same as the offer they make to a bigger player who is a more favored partner to them. They will tell you if you become big, you will get better deals. You come back home. Then, you do your market research and decide where in the market's price/feature/quality curve is an opportunity for you today and what is your 10 year strategy to become big. Then, you also find out someone is doing a higher quality product but somehow pricing it lower - they are cross-subsidizing it. In the recent decade that has been through data/ads deals. Then, you study what happened to those players who didn't do data/ads deals and launched the product at actual the price with some decent margin built-in. They didn't do so well. Consumers cared more about feature spec and price deals than about data/ads fine-print. A lot of the features are to do with software OS. Then you discover that the software OS vendor has lock-in contracts with the contract manufacturer. You want to use that manufacturer who has great quality TV hardware components, you don't really have a choice but to use that software vendor's OS that comes baked into the TV by the manufacturer and let them take your customer's data forever. That's the current world we are in.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#328
There is hope:

- 20 years ago it was impossible to buy a PC, especially a laptop, without MS Windows : today there are several suppliers: System76, LaptopWithLinux, TuxedoComputers, to name but a few.

- It is only in the last few years (less than 10) that Linux is perfectly usable on the desktop, so I don't care what decision MS will take for Windows, it is irrelevant if you have other options. For office suites we have: LibreOffice, OnlyOffice, FreeOffice

- FreeBSD has come a long way as a desktop too,in the long run will be usable as Linux

- There are now many alternatives (free or paid) to all the Google services. What Google decides to do with its own services is irrelevant to me, there are alternatives: ProtonMail, Tutanota, Infomaniak, OpenStreetmap, MagicEarth, OrganicMaps, ...

- There are several open source alternatives to Google Android, solid, complete and usable: Iodè, e/OS, to name a few, and we already have an open source app store: F-Droid.

- Linux is also making huge improvements on mobile phones (see PinePhone). It will take a few years, but I'm sure we'll have a viable alternative to Android in the near future.

- There are many messaging apps and protocols that are decentralised and resistant to censorship.

What is really in danger, in my opinion, is net neutrality and the clamps that Google and other big tech companies and governments will try to impose, but in the recent years we have seen a rise of decentralised protocols and services.

My humble suggestions:

- don't use the services of the big tech companies : look for and use only open source alternatives, if possible

- use an open source version of Android on your phone, without the Google services

- prefer decentralised solutions whenever possible

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#329
post #181

The other day I read an HN comment that thought that when you buy consumer PC hardware, it comes with a ToS that limits your property rights as the owner. It's the kind of uncanny experience I run into more and more often lately: talking with people so immersed in our new normal of cyberpunk dystopia, they seem not to remember how things were in the before-times. So accustomed to exploitative corporate gaslighting, w…

Wickard v. Filburn ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37370108 ) should fuel a similar sense of outrage.

But how else will the enlightened Federal Government use it's reach to micromanage everyone's lives?

(I completely agree with you however.)

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all about milking and rent-seeking: greed. Every device/vehicle/system now needs to be connected to the internet and needs you to download an app. Is that for the consumer? No. That's for the manufacturer. For milking be reselling your data and/or spying on you and/or charging extra because they can and/or the capability to turn any device into literal trash by not providing updates or bug fixes to a half-baked…

> It's all about milking and rent-seeking: greed. And greed starts to become an issue when managers think they need a raise. But to be fair, if you're not an engineer is there much else you can take pride in other than driving up profits by whatever means?

It’s weird how people in tech think they are superior to their less-technical colleagues. Everyone outside of software development is a moron and the entire world would be better if programmers ran everything with no oversight. Somehow only engineers are moral and everyone else is purely motivated by profit. But engineers are above that! It’s so ridiculous.
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