321–330 of 451 posts
Phew, what a post. I am at University of Toronto right now. I have only been here for some months but I have seen enough things to get a sense of the "politics" of the place. Also, I've been in many of the world's top universities (Caltech, Cornell, KAUST, Oxford, Stanford, UNAM, and some others with less pompous names); either studying, visiting, working, w/e. I've been doing this for close to 20 years now. I know a…
How do foreigners / non-Hindus fit into the caste system? Are there caste equivalent attitudes towards Arabs, Euros, East Asians and so on? Or from a different angle, Muslims, Christians, irreligious, etc. Or does the framework not apply to those outside of the Hindu community?
Caste exists in christian and muslims demoninations in India too, just google muslim caste system (ashrafs at the top). it exists in pakistan and most of south asia. nothing really to do with hindus as per say.
That's not to say this interfaith caste constructs don't exist, but I've never heard an in-person mention of them in all my life. I'm genuinely curious how widespread they actually are. Were they something that had more weight back in the 16th century, maybe? Conversely, I have heard Indian friends discuss caste discrimination in places like Microsoft.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> While the atrocities and punishments by "upper" caste people on "lower" caste people continue, even OBCs oppress SCs and STs quite badly [...]. This is the step 1. in ensuring any oppressive system continues to be supported by a majority / critical mass of people, who are themselves subject to oppression: make sure there's someone even lower than you, on whom you can unleash your frustration.
The issue is OBC (Other Backwards Castes) was invented as a populist measure in 1992. After Independence, Affirmative Action/Reservation was created so Dalits and Nomadic Tribes who were traditionally outcastes in South Asian society could be integrated into society. Yet, in the 1980s-90s, Agrarian and Feudal Caste politicians like Mulayam Singh Yadav (Yadav), Lalu Prasad Yadav (Yadav), Chaudhary Charan Singh (Jatt),…
OBCs are > 50% of India's population my some measure which tells you they are extremely powerful in an democracy. They engage in this race to bottom where they want more legal discrimination that favors them at the expense of another.
One can easily see that the most powerful politicians everywhere in India are mostly OBC. India's current PM is an OBC, so is the CMs of some of the richest states like Maharahstra, Tamilnadu or the most populous states like Uttar Pradesh. Making a claim that this group is somehow "oppressed" is like claiming Teachers Unions or NRA being politically oppressed. It is other way around.
How do foreigners / non-Hindus fit into the caste system? Are there caste equivalent attitudes towards Arabs, Euros, East Asians and so on? Or from a different angle, Muslims, Christians, irreligious, etc. Or does the framework not apply to those outside of the Hindu community?
It mostly doesn’t. Historically there have been lots of mass conversions to other religions the first one being Buddhism in 600BC. Buddhism came about primarily as a response to Hindu orthodoxy and the caste system.
Groups like the Veerashaivas were concertedly anti-caste discrimination but the Buddhists were decidedly not. They’d be more like a Kshatriya revolt against Brahmins but that’s just upper-caste infighting, not anti-caste. Similarly with Muslim and Christian converts, the first ones were predominantly, if not almost entirely, Brahmin.
Just as India is large and complex, so is everyone's experience. 59.5% of IIT seats are reserved for backward castes - that is HUGE in a nation full of students competing for the 40% seats available for the general category. The entrance exam score gap between reserved and general is massive (numbers are public) and it shows in their relative academic performance. One could make an argument that the Indian Government…
How do foreigners / non-Hindus fit into the caste system? Are there caste equivalent attitudes towards Arabs, Euros, East Asians and so on? Or from a different angle, Muslims, Christians, irreligious, etc. Or does the framework not apply to those outside of the Hindu community?
In Indian history, certain groups/clans/families were associated with certain jobs. How close those jobs were to the throne or to the Mandir determined your 'rank'.
Fun fact, this is why the last name Singh exists, as a rejection of that system.
Even though RTI queries to major IITs reveal that almost all faculty comes from un-reserved category, one needs more evidence (than this RTI data) to show that caste discrimination occurred. If there is an opening for two faculty positions in the IITM CS department esp in machine learning and AI, if 20 people are applied, two are selected, and two happened to be from un-reserved category. Does it prove caste-discrimi…
Even if the delta was the result of a lack of candidates from disadvantaged castes, to me that suggests that the discrimination already happened earlier, weeding out the disadvantaged castes before they could even become qualified candidates.
Indian educational institutes both private and public have around 50% affirmative action to backward classes. Similarly all the educational levels below that can have around 10%-30% affirmative action based on caste.
The caste system in India is layered like onions. The author says he was born as OBC (Other Backward Classes), but that's not the lowest in the overall scheme. SC (Scheduled Castes) are considered lower in the hierarchy. ST (Scheduled Tribes) are considered even lower (there are variations across states and regions, so please take this with a pinch of salt). While the atrocities and punishments by "upper" caste peopl…
And to make it even more complex I’m classified as Upper caste in the state I was born, OBC in 2 other neighboring states. Many from the caste I was born in migrate to other states so they can get reservations (affirmative action) benefits for their kids.
To make it even further further complex, there is a sub caste with in the caste I was born in that are treated as SCs because of political reasons (may be?), so many cross marriage on purpose, again to get benefits for their kids.
This is one of the main reason that is holding back India as a country. No one I know in my generation (born in 90s) practice or discriminate anyone, but the government regularly does and reminds you of it
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It mostly doesn’t. Historically there have been lots of mass conversions to other religions the first one being Buddhism in 600BC. Buddhism came about primarily as a response to Hindu orthodoxy and the caste system.
What does "doesn't" mean? Would I, random Dutch person of christianity or no religion as you will, be treated equal to the highest of castes or to an average one for example?
The Prime Minister of India is an OBC and he got there through lifelong membership in the RSS a supposedly brahminical org. His competence as a politician and leader is unquestioned. The President of India is a Tribal, which can roughly equate to the status of indigenous people the world over. Her speeches are legendary, especially the one where she presented the inequities of the Indian judicial system to the judges…
> What does one make of this? From what you have written, honestly, your political biases.
Care to rebut the facts instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks?