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NY Times Rides in Waymo Robotaxis in SF

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Re: NY Times Rides in Waymo Robotaxis in SF

#321

Post by 3cats-in-a-coat »

tchaffee wrote: post #316
3cats-in-a-coat wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once again you forgot to even hint what evidence you’re talking about. It’s like you’re eager to win an argument, you want that reward, so you’re posting, but you’re too lazy to actually make an argument. So you kind of keep posting half way and declaring yourself a winner because “everything around” proves you right about… something. It’s kind of funny.

I haven't seen any evidence in any of your comments. You try to persuade (which is not evidence), but I haven't been persuaded.

At least it's clear what I'm trying to persuade you about.

As for evidence, frankly like this other guy says "it's all around us" but you need to translate what happens to systems (species, civilizations, ecosystems, nations, companies, industries) in smaller scale, and translate it to a globalized economy. Indeed, by the time we have evidence that our entire species is potentially screwed... we'll no longer have use of the evidence.

It's the same story as climate change. I actually think it's quite poetic both of those are hitting us at the same time. COVID was a bit early and a bit weak, but I'm sure another will come, to make the perfect triple storm.

Re: NY Times Rides in Waymo Robotaxis in SF

#322

Post by HDThoreaun »

EGreg wrote: post #202
tchaffee wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your reasoning seems logical at first glance so I can understand why you would come to your conclusions. History shows you to be wrong. It doesn't take a high IQ to use a machine to hugely increase your productivity. And in some cases the machine is easier to operate. I'll take a car over a horse any day. Salaries for low skill jobs in the US are going up. UPS drivers now get paid close to $200k. The labor shortage i…

Past results are not an indicator of future performance. There is no economic law that guarantees human labor will always be in demand. 70 years ago one man could sustain an entire household on one paycheck, his work was valued and the company man worked decades until he got a pension. Today, both sexes work long hours just to afford a tiny apartment, they have to switch jobs every couple years and even started doing…

> 70 years ago one man could sustain an entire household on one paycheck

There are just as many "one salary sustains an entire household" jobs today as there ever were in the past. More in fact. The factory job that provides enough for the whole family was only ever a reality for a tiny, tiny portion of humanity. The vast majority of people, even the vast majority of americans did not have access to those jobs. Even the "glory days" of american manufacturing were filled with abject poverty.

> Horses and oxen were very useful throughout history, until the car and tractor was invited. Today the number of horses and oxen is at an all-time low. No amount of unionizing by horses would change that

This ignores that horses have zero political power. No one is working to make their lives better.

Re: NY Times Rides in Waymo Robotaxis in SF

#323

Post by kn0where »

prepend wrote: post #307
pb7 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not interested in commenting on the rest but do we have more cancer or are we better at detecting cancer?

Also we live longer so it’s more likely to detect and die from cancer. Even over 100 years ago is true incidence of cancer higher? Not to mention why we would think we have more cancer now than 1000 years ago. Or perhaps we have more cancer but that’s because people aren’t dying of other things first, so it doesn’t matter we have more cancer. This is the kind of counterproductive examples I find people arguing about.…

Cars have absolutely gotten more dangerous as they’ve increased in size — for anyone outside of one.

Re: NY Times Rides in Waymo Robotaxis in SF

#324

Post by HDThoreaun »

olyjohn wrote: post #88
quickthrower2 wrote: post #23

A concept I look forward to is not just a driverless car, but driverless "various size vehicles" from a 1-person car to a 100-person bus. In this future we could get the advantages of public transport and car-free living into rural and suburban areas, while in the city these systems could adjust and use AI to find optimal routes that are a lot less slower than current buses (or even trains that require 2 or 3 connect…

Why does having no driver suddenly enable this? You can do all this now, you just need a driver. Why is that the part that needs to be eliminated before you can do all these things? All it is, is route planning based on demand. Uber, etc should be able to do all this now. Isn't that what Uber Pool was supposed to deliver? Nobody uses that shit for anything but a commute. Nobody wants to sit in a car with other random…

My cities public transit system is currently limited by the number of drivers they can find. The pay is quite good, they just can't sign people up. This has lead to extreme inconsistencies where if a driver calls in sick a bus or train just won't show up for 30 minutes instead of the usual 10. Driverless busses allow for the system to greatly expand the number of routes and increase consistency.

Re: NY Times Rides in Waymo Robotaxis in SF

#326

Post by ForHackernews »

3cats-in-a-coat wrote: post #199
ForHackernews wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, well, as long as we're on the subject of the distinction between theory and practice I'm not worried that unionizing Amazon warehouses will bring about a new USSR. I've worked union jobs and I've worked non-union jobs: the union jobs paid better and came with better benefits than their non-union equivalents. QED.

Unionized Amazon warehouses are the strongest kick in the butt that Amazon needs to automate this entire union out of existence. Once again. See Hollywood. Strike. “No AI” said the signs. Result? Studios amping up AI hiring like crazy. Humans are into humans. But capitalism isn’t, that much. It doesn’t care about what substrate it’s made of. Its soul is made of money. Unions make things better for workers in the shor…

I wouldn't count your AI chickens yet. Path dependence is real and SAG/WGA are smart to pick this fight today not in 5 years' time. If they play their cards right now, while they have leverage, then they will gain additional legal/contractual leverage for the future.

Slavery and child labor were once common and economically lucrative, today they're very rare in the developed world. It's simply not true that humans can never choose to collectively reject an economically compelling option.

Re: NY Times Rides in Waymo Robotaxis in SF

#327

Post by frumper »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #324
olyjohn wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does having no driver suddenly enable this? You can do all this now, you just need a driver. Why is that the part that needs to be eliminated before you can do all these things? All it is, is route planning based on demand. Uber, etc should be able to do all this now. Isn't that what Uber Pool was supposed to deliver? Nobody uses that shit for anything but a commute. Nobody wants to sit in a car with other random…

My cities public transit system is currently limited by the number of drivers they can find. The pay is quite good, they just can't sign people up. This has lead to extreme inconsistencies where if a driver calls in sick a bus or train just won't show up for 30 minutes instead of the usual 10. Driverless busses allow for the system to greatly expand the number of routes and increase consistency.

> The pay is quite good, they just can't sign people up.

Quite good does not sound good enough.

Re: NY Times Rides in Waymo Robotaxis in SF

#328

Post by HDThoreaun »

frumper wrote: post #327
HDThoreaun wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My cities public transit system is currently limited by the number of drivers they can find. The pay is quite good, they just can't sign people up. This has lead to extreme inconsistencies where if a driver calls in sick a bus or train just won't show up for 30 minutes instead of the usual 10. Driverless busses allow for the system to greatly expand the number of routes and increase consistency.

> The pay is quite good, they just can't sign people up. Quite good does not sound good enough.

it's well into 6 figures in a MCOL area. If they paid any more they'd have to raise fares which would cause less people to use it.

Re: NY Times Rides in Waymo Robotaxis in SF

#329

Post by frumper »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #328
frumper wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The pay is quite good, they just can't sign people up. Quite good does not sound good enough.

it's well into 6 figures in a MCOL area. If they paid any more they'd have to raise fares which would cause less people to use it.

Or raise taxes, pay more for drivers, and lower fares.

Re: NY Times Rides in Waymo Robotaxis in SF

#330

Post by HDThoreaun »

frumper wrote: post #329
HDThoreaun wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's well into 6 figures in a MCOL area. If they paid any more they'd have to raise fares which would cause less people to use it.

Or raise taxes, pay more for drivers, and lower fares.

That would be nice, but the current funding level is already under political attack. There is absolutely no chance of increased funding when people are already incredibly pissed about the tax burden.
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