Earlier quoted context omitted.
And that’s why you stand where you are and Microsoft stand where it does. You’re thinking like an engineer. Microsoft is a business. Backwards compatible is its major core competency.
And yet Apple has famously broken compatibility on a regular basis. Remember when Apple went from Motorola 68000 to Intel x86? They did it by providing direct support to key companies to port their software, and providing Rosetta for applications that could take the performance hit.
Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago
321–330 of 424 posts
Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
Win16 got dropped at some point, probably because keeping it didn't add up financially. I have little doubt they could have kept support for much older stuff.
There's a "pirate" port of NTVDM to 64-bit Windows (from leaked NT 4.0 source) so it's certainly not technically infeasible: https://github.com/leecher1337/ntvdmx64
Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
Re: Firefox, Firefox only demands restarting if you changed the copy of Firefox out from under it. This only happens if you're managing Firefox with an external package manager, or you're building from the repo and installed a new copy. If you run Firefox from its default mechanism, it will update itself and ask to restart before applying the update, and will continue working forever, never updating until you restart…
Might be the case now (Note, I'm talking about Nightly), this was a few years back, I noticed that first it warned that a new version was working and then mysteriously bricked the browser after, complained and they told me that I "shouldn't be using nightly if I don't wanna have the latest updates"... which I do, but I don't wanna be forced into a restart unless it actually breaks?
You will get what you want out of the regular branch, and even more out of the Extended Support Release branch.
As for Windows rebooting out of nowhere: Get a Professional or Enterprise license and turn autoupdates off via Group Policy and your problems are solved.
Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't have the reference for it here, but in the first year Windows Vista was out >50% of crashes were due to buggy nVidia drivers. Microsoft assumed (incorrectly) that their ecosystem would get their shit together automatically. That nVidia would make solid drivers for the new Windows WDDM driver model. The year before Windows 7 came out I was working at a company (DivX ;-) making Windows software. We were getting…
Amazing story, thanks for sharing. It explains some of the sustained success of Windows perhaps.
Ben has a Compaq laptop that is Vista capable. It takes upwards of three minutes, I kid you not, of blank screen to get a UAC prompt for elevated access request. And those were very common with Vista.
Randy has a nice (and expensive) desktop and thinks windows Vista is just fine and all computers should upgrade to it (college computers still has Windows XP and there was no plan to upgrade existing computers to visits that I knew of).
They both have wildly different opinions of Windows Vista.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2008/03/the-vista-capable-de...
Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago
#325FWIW, Beavis and Butthead in Virtual Stupidity (1995) runs perfectly fine in Windows 10/11 with compatibility mode enabled. No need to test anything else as that's arguably the apex of software (and humanity's collective output). https://www.myabandonware.com/game/mtv-s-beavis-and-butt-hea...
That sounds like a scene from a post-apocalyptic story. Cobbling a working computer together, discovering it will only run Beavis and Butthead in Virtual Stupidity.
Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The kernel team is absolutely top tier. The kernel itself is of much higher quality than what you'd find on Linux, or MacOS. Have recommended sources for this or learning more? My experience with Windows doesn't match this at all, though from my perspective it's hard to tell if it's kernel as opposed to any of the layers above it.
Windows was kinda a wreck till “windows NT” they brought in David Cutler who did Vax/VMS to help architect it. It was pretty amazing the transition from 95/95/me/vista to windowsNT/2000/XP. They put my old operating systems book appendixes online which have details about windows 2000 (Mach and bsd are the other os covered) https://bcs.wiley.com/he-bcs/Books?action=resource&itemId=04... Check out appendix C for detail…
Windows Vista is part of the Windows NT lineage, specifically NT 6.0.
Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, people used undocumented functions, which were left undocumented as they were a subject to change, and accused Microsoft of not understanding software development or thought that those undocumented APIs were somehow better than the recommended documented ones. When stuff crushed after Microsoft changed an API people would be accusing them for deliberately breaking their applications and what not. I remember the…
Perhaps the negativity stems from the all the illegal, immoral, and damaging acts in this era. Not least of which is pouring millions into a baseless pump and dump scheme laying hallucinated charges of infringement against the entire Linux ecosystem but there are plenty of other issues. In short people hated them for being shitty people who do shitty things and present leadership were important folks when these shitt…
Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago
#328Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, just like they had valid technical reasons to kill 32-bit iOS apps. The point is that they don’t go above and beyond like Microsoft (although of course even MS has deprecated e.g. 16-bit apps).
On the bright side, the end result is that on Mac there are only apps that have been updated this decade.
Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago
#329Even more “insanity”: z/OS (aka OS360 aka MVS) supports programs going back to the 60s and I just talked with a DE at IBM who is still using a program compiled circa Apollo 11 mission.
What's a DE? Also did they tell you what the program did? Other systems that will run or automatically translate > 30 yr old binaries: - I believe IBM i on POWER {i5/AS400} will run stuff from System 38 (1980). - HPE Nonstop (aka Tandem Guardian ) on X86-64 will run or translate binaries from the original proprietary TNS systems (late 1970s) and MIPS systems (1991).
Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, people used undocumented functions, which were left undocumented as they were a subject to change, and accused Microsoft of not understanding software development or thought that those undocumented APIs were somehow better than the recommended documented ones. When stuff crushed after Microsoft changed an API people would be accusing them for deliberately breaking their applications and what not. I remember the…
Perhaps the negativity stems from the all the illegal, immoral, and damaging acts in this era. Not least of which is pouring millions into a baseless pump and dump scheme laying hallucinated charges of infringement against the entire Linux ecosystem but there are plenty of other issues. In short people hated them for being shitty people who do shitty things and present leadership were important folks when these shitt…
Perhaps, but hate against Microsoft was not the point of the discussion. You are free to see them in whichever light you want, I just don't understand why you have to down-vote me or bring that into completely different discussion.
The question here was about the technical issues and their work on making software tick despite people abusing the API and producing buggy software. That has nothing to do with hate against Microsoft. To me that sounds like a whataboutism.
By the way, I personally don't even use Windows, I have been 100% Linux user since many years and have contributed to a GNU project, I am not some Microsoft fanboy as you might see me. But I see no value in defending a wrong, and I see the same behavior repeated in other communities. People abuse the API or don't read the documentation or just are plain idiots, and than accuse the developers for being malicious or stupid or whatever when things break. That behavior is bad for anyone, regardless if it is against Microsoft or some GNU project.
> In short people hated them for being shitty people who do shitty things and present leadership were important folks when these shitty things were done everyone just moved up a few rings.
I am sure people have many reasons they hate something or someone for, Microsoft included. There are people who passionately hate GNU, Linux, FSF, you name it. If you justify such behavior, it is your choice, but I am not interested in that discussion. I was talking about people abusing API and than blaming Microsoft for incompetence or deliberate evil, while the company obviously went to quite long efforts to make things work, even for buggy software. Microsoft may as well be evil or good for other reasons, but wasn't really the point of discussion.
> They aren't better people they just have better aligned incentives where illegality and immorality aren't profitable.
This is outright dangerous behavior on your part. You are transferring a behavior you have projected on a company over the entire group of people, all the thousands of people who work for Microsoft. To start with, they are all individuals, and as in every group there are good and bad characters among them. Also, history is against you, Microsoft was, and still is very profitable company. In the time we speak about, they were probably too profitable for its own best. For the second there are law and law enforcement officials to decide if they did illegal business or not.
Not to mention, that probably most of those who worked there back in 90's are probably retired or have changed the job by now. Also, to note, with thinking and statements like that one, you are denying people chance to develop as individuals and become better persons.