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The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

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Re: The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

#321

Post by wkat4242 »

Medh_Suk wrote: post #104
gleenn wrote: post #5

His two examples are Twitter and Reddit whose ad revenue is dying because those two companies have made huge blunders. Elon seems to almost actively be killing Twitter (which the poster even states). Reddit screwed Apollo and then many of the most popular subreddits protested and did things like show porn on otherwise usually SFW content to prevent Reddit from showing ads and thus killing their profits. Those are big…

Marketers have ruined internet with deceptive and click baity ads. I dont have a problem with ads, just dont sell my data to everyone who knocks on your companies doors. Happy to support ethical ads. Twitter ads are aweful, showing unknown, click bait ads on its platform.

I'm not supporting any ads anymore ever again. My trust in the industry has been eroded so much that I can't imagine them going the right thing even when they claim to do so.

Re: The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

#322

Post by flagrant_taco »

rightbyte wrote: post #308
flagrant_taco wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are all kinds of reasons for professional investors to be in a position when they need an investment to double in the short term. Sometimes thats greed, other times it's to cover existing bets that are losing and could cause their entire fund to collapse. Say, for example, a certain bank where to listen to the Fed and invest massive piles of cash deposited after currency debasement into federal notes and bonds.…

You will still get the interest and money back from lower rate bounds. They only drop in value if you need to sell them before they mature.

Right, the example I was attempting to give was a scenario where a professional investor may legitimately need to have a quick windfall from am investment. They couldn't sell their bonds that are currently worth less than they paid for them so the investor may legitimately need another investment to double their money.

Re: The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

#323

Post by flagrant_taco »

jocaal wrote: post #316
flagrant_taco wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This gets to one big confusion I have, with ad revenue and volume decreasing why are the ad platforms selling more ad spots? When demand for ad spots falls, the supply of spots should fal as fast or slightly faster to avoid a price collapse. Attempting to shore up revenue by trying to show even more ads is begging for your business to crumble and die a quick, painful death.

In economics there is a concept, profit maximization, where it is determined at which prices the products will, well maximize profits, by taking into account marginal changes in supply and demand. I would be very surprised if the big ad companies didnt have a few economists do the calculations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit_maximization?wprov=sfla...

I'd be even more suprised if the profit maximization point when prices and the demand for ad spots were both down involved an even higher supply of ad spots for sale.

Finding the right level to decrease supply by would be a tricky calculation to get right, but in no way could the right move be to further flood the market with supply.

Re: The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

#324

Post by machina_ex_deus »

ndriscoll wrote: post #142
jhaenchen wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real issue IMO is that users do not understand that ads pay for their apps. They don't want to see ads and the ads they do see they want them to be uninformed and general. They want everything free. This just encourages subscriptions. Which we're seeing become more and more common.

Most of the apps I use are in fact free, and do not have ads to pay for them. Someone wanted something to exist, so they made it, and then they gave it away for free to everyone because computers are magical and there's no marginal cost to do that. The ad based Internet dying would leave hobby and academic content, significantly cleaning up the signal:noise ratio on the web, which would be great. As a bonus, you woul…

I would love to see a search engine which only indexes ad free websites. Would probably beat Google in many things without any algorithm. Even as blockers don't solve the problem of only getting SEO ad pages, but a search engine which doesn't show any website with ads will automatically filter all the trash.

Re: The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

#325

Post by Eisenstein »

jwestbury wrote: post #299
Eisenstein wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were many obviously lucrative paths Reddit could have taken. They have incredible amounts of data on users who self-select their own interests. They were making money selling subscriptions even. They could have monetized all sorts of things in non-annoying ways, like secret santa (pay to verify users or have direct anonymous shipping?), subreddit sponsorships (want to own /r/steam, Valve pays for it), etc. Inst…

> Reddit is an example of what happens when you put people in charge of a business who are both greedy and stupid. No, it's what happens when your investors are VCs who need to 10x on their wins because most of their investments fail. As a result, stable, long-term profitability isn't the goal; big IPOs are, or at least explosive growth. There's no room for a company which is moderately successful when VCs are involv…

They didn't need to take money from VCs. They would have been fine as they were -- they were making enough money from Reddit premium subscriptions to pay hosting costs (before they pivoted to hosting all their own media instead of just text). All they had to do was monetize the subreddits, license branding, and do some event stuff. All of the founders would have been 10millionaires. They got greedy and took VC money and every decision since then has been objectively terrible for anything but engagement metrics.

Re: The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

#326

Post by sclarisse »

rchaud wrote: post #278
sclarisse wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s economic profits that approach 0. You can still run an accounting profit, it’s just not bigger than it would be if you invested your money somewhere else, like land or mining or coffeeshops or whatever.

Economic profit is still there, it's abnormal profits that would go to zero. With zero EP the opportunity cost of staying in business would be to high. With 0 AP, the industry is in equilibrium, with no companies dropping out, and no companies entering the market.

The economic profit is literally defined as the accounting-type profits, minus the opportunity costs. When the opportunity cost is large like that you are describing negative economic profit.

Re: The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

#327

Post by badpun »

badpun wrote: post #313
skydhash wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real issue IMO is that users do not understand that ads pay for their apps Because it does not make any sense. No one wants to be shown something he does not find interesting or important, even if they say that they will. So if you believe people should watch, read, or listen to your ads, you've been living in a bubble. > They want everything free. It would be nice if everything were free, but only small childr…

> The real issue IMO is that users do not understand that ads pay for their apps. Because it does not make any sense. No one wants to be shown something he does not find interesting or important, even if they say that they will. So if you believe people should watch, read, or listen to your ads, you've been living in a bubble. It's either watch some ads, or work slightly harder to make slightly more money, to afford…

To the downvoters: YouTube has been, for a couple years now, conducting a natural experiment that my confirms my claim. People can either buy a subscribtion or suffer the ads. Most prefer the ads.

Re: The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

#328

Post by rbreaves »

Eisenstein wrote: post #325
jwestbury wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reddit is an example of what happens when you put people in charge of a business who are both greedy and stupid. No, it's what happens when your investors are VCs who need to 10x on their wins because most of their investments fail. As a result, stable, long-term profitability isn't the goal; big IPOs are, or at least explosive growth. There's no room for a company which is moderately successful when VCs are involv…

They didn't need to take money from VCs. They would have been fine as they were -- they were making enough money from Reddit premium subscriptions to pay hosting costs (before they pivoted to hosting all their own media instead of just text). All they had to do was monetize the subreddits, license branding, and do some event stuff. All of the founders would have been 10millionaires. They got greedy and took VC money…

Oh slow & proper growth is frowned upon - taking other people’s money & trying to grow fast isn’t sadly. I’ve been in that situation w/ a business partner & the moment I realized my partner was trying to push me out I was like f* this & you - I’m out. I have no tolerance for bs & I saw it early enough to check out before having invested more than 2-3k of my own money. Sadly a good bit of my time but I was furious & done w/ it.

Re: The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

#329

Post by MSFT_Edging »

flagrant_taco wrote: post #291
MSFT_Edging wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, profit now is less used for expenses or growth, and redirected to stock buy-backs and shareholders. Excess value is real, measured not from the margin, or even money that goes back into the org, but value that is 100% extracted from the organization, often at the detriment of the org for the sake of shareholders. Its very often just parasitic. People are so entitled now, "nooo i need my investments double…

There are all kinds of reasons for professional investors to be in a position when they need an investment to double in the short term. Sometimes thats greed, other times it's to cover existing bets that are losing and could cause their entire fund to collapse. Say, for example, a certain bank where to listen to the Fed and invest massive piles of cash deposited after currency debasement into federal notes and bonds.…

So I understand there is a lot of nuance in this space, but:

> other times it's to cover existing bets

This is my issue. Our economy has become a casino for these professional investment firms with lots of capital to try to strike it rich. This is not a healthy way to run a system that determines who lives or dies in a big picture sense.

The economy has become a game for people with connections. It no longer matters if a business is healthy or profitable, if it does not work within this grand casino. The search for constant growth is killing us all.

Re: The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

#330

Post by earthboundkid »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #265
earthboundkid wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's pretty obvious just as a consumer that banner ads don't work. No one deliberately clicks on them, and meanwhile every major site has obvious scam ads on it. Magazines always had scam ads, but they were in the back pages in small print. Now the scam ads are quite prominent (and disgusting). People in general like ads: they sing jingles, they talk about funny Super Bowl ads, they buy the mattress their pod…

How about tracking. Tracking is what Hoffman wants to do away with.

Tracking should be banned. It makes the market worse for consumers and publishers.
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