EU suggests breaking up Google's ad business in preliminary antitrust ruling • Hacker News Board

Re: EU suggests breaking up Google's ad business in preliminary antitrust ruling

#321

Post by callalex » Wed, Jun 14, 2023, 6:10 PM UTC

spacebanana7 wrote: post #310

sangnoir wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes down to it - it's the same thing with the EU - they can decree that Google be broken apart or stop doing business in the union. Or pay a massive fine based on global profit or exit the union.

The goal of antitrust is to make markets more competitive. If Google left the EU entirely there’d be even fewer competitors in the digital ads space. Depending on the segment Google’s market share would likely go to Bing, Facebook or TikTok. The EU wants to increase the market competition, but frustratingly antitrust enforcement may not be effective and might even go in the opposite direction.

>If Google left the EU entirely there’d be even fewer competitors in the digital ads space.

This may be true in the very short term, but leaving a big hole in the market like that creates an opportunity for new players that would have otherwise avoided the space because it was controlled by a monopoly.

Re: EU suggests breaking up Google's ad business in preliminary antitrust ruling

#322

Post by shadowgovt » Wed, Jun 14, 2023, 6:15 PM UTC

pie420 wrote: post #319

rsynnott wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory, yes. In practice, didn't MS use basically this as one of their arguments when the FTC tried to break them up back in the day?

"The US failed to break up a monopoly that to this day stifles competition and prevents effective capitalism by making itself to complicated to regulate, so lets keep making the same mistakes"

Does modern MS stifle competition and prevent effective capitalism? I don't think I've heard anyone beat that drum and get a band marching behind it in years.

This is the same Microsoft that's seen its desktop market share slowly erode since 2013, right? The one holding 1.9% of smartphone marketshare? The one so impossible to regulate that the FTC is regulating it right now (https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2022/12/...)?

Re: EU suggests breaking up Google's ad business in preliminary antitrust ruling

#323

Post by scotty79 » Wed, Jun 14, 2023, 6:40 PM UTC

Recently I learned that single brand can be divided between multiple owners and as they compete the brand competes with itself. I heard of an example of fast food restaurant brand for which that was the case.

Maybe we should do that more often when any brand grows too big?

Re: EU suggests breaking up Google's ad business in preliminary antitrust ruling

#324

Post by abwizz » Wed, Jun 14, 2023, 6:43 PM UTC

kevinob11 wrote: post #232

belter wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if a supermarket not only sold goods but also controlled all supply chains, decided on the prices of every product, and owned the only transportation system in town. All the while, it keeps track of every item you've ever bought or looked at, and how much you're willing to spend on groceries. The supermarket then uses this data to influence product pricing, availability, and transportation routes...And it's t…

I'm not pro Google, and I'm finally un-googling my life. But I don't think it is great to compare food to ads, one is required to live.

living completely offline is becoming increasingly challangeing thou. and going online to do anything becomes increasingly difficult w/o coming in touch with google in any way.

Re: EU suggests breaking up Google's ad business in preliminary antitrust ruling

#325

Post by abwizz » Wed, Jun 14, 2023, 6:46 PM UTC

trinsic2 wrote: post #306

shepherdjerred wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Maps, YouTube, and gmail (forwarded to my fastmail) are all that I really have, but they're _really_ hard to replace. Apple Maps sucks, there's nothing near as good as YouTube, and I don't want to move hundreds of email accounts off of gmail.

> Apple Maps sucks Really? I found it more accurate in most cases. I wonder if there is a difference based on location. I am in California. Also maybe years ago it was not as good as Google, maybe it got better since then?

probably a little of all the reasons you named, plus some others.

most likely it was just a shallow bait for apple fan's as i too use apple maps almost exclusively for some years now and found it more than capable for my navigation needs.

Re: EU suggests breaking up Google's ad business in preliminary antitrust ruling

#326

Post by amai » Wed, Jun 14, 2023, 7:18 PM UTC

Too late, too little. Google must be split up at least into search, YouTube, android, ads, map and news. That would help foster some competition in these markets.

Re: EU suggests breaking up Google's ad business in preliminary antitrust ruling

#327

Post by piva00 » Wed, Jun 14, 2023, 7:30 PM UTC

spacebanana7 wrote: post #310

sangnoir wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes down to it - it's the same thing with the EU - they can decree that Google be broken apart or stop doing business in the union. Or pay a massive fine based on global profit or exit the union.

The goal of antitrust is to make markets more competitive. If Google left the EU entirely there’d be even fewer competitors in the digital ads space. Depending on the segment Google’s market share would likely go to Bing, Facebook or TikTok. The EU wants to increase the market competition, but frustratingly antitrust enforcement may not be effective and might even go in the opposite direction.

If Google left the ads market in the EU there'd be a massive gap to be filled by multiple companies, competition would have a field day filling it.

I don't follow your argument.

Re: EU suggests breaking up Google's ad business in preliminary antitrust ruling

#328

Post by panragon » Wed, Jun 14, 2023, 7:44 PM UTC

throwaway462910 wrote: post #186

thfuran wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's not the claim being made.

It's the claim being pre-emptively argued against though

This is completely false, I stated very clearly that they have jurisidiction regardless and that anti-trust is fine. I was just pointing out that it's pretty unfair to use the size of Google Ireland as if it's "just another EU country" when it accounts for basically all EU-based revenue.

€50bln is still a huge amount, but based on the phrasing of that comment you'd assume we were talking about figures well over €1t!

Re: EU suggests breaking up Google's ad business in preliminary antitrust ruling

#329

Post by panragon » Wed, Jun 14, 2023, 7:45 PM UTC

sensanaty wrote: post #269

bbor wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure there’s anyone in here arguing for google. Poor little google, being bullied by all us hackers…

You should check out the thread, lots of people throwing themselves in front of the firing line because I guess they think that messing with Google will somehow translate to messing with their own startups or whatever.

Or they just work for Google, of which there's a reasonable amount of members here, but yeah.

Re: EU suggests breaking up Google's ad business in preliminary antitrust ruling

#330

Post by throw140623 » Wed, Jun 14, 2023, 8:17 PM UTC

nova22033 wrote: post #267

Aunche wrote: post #21

>EU is “concerned that Google has made it harder for rival online advertising services to compete in the so-called ad tech stack.” There are plenty of competitors in the ad tech space. China created TikTok. Korea created KaoKaoTalk. Even Japan created Line. Meanwhile, the EU, for all it's antitrust regulation, hasn't created anything substantial. Perhaps, it's the burdensome regulation that's the problem.

EU gave us the "Accept all cookies" button.

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