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Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

arstechnica.com

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Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#321

Post by mouse_ »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #305
matheusmoreira wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wanting to have control over the vehicle is not some "gearhead forum" thing at all. I barely care about cars and I still care about this. I'm the driver, I should be in control and there's literally no need to justify it any further. Anything that forcibly takes away control is automatically wrong from a basic human dignity perspective. I couldn't care less what governments or insurers think, I'm the goddamn human an…

I'm baffled by this comment. For one thing, this is literally not how vehicle regulation has worked in any western country for at least half a century, probably longer. There are already legally mandated systems that take away driver control in certain circumstances, notably ABS. For another, the NPRM being discussed assumes that essentially 100% of new vehicles will eventually come with AEB systems in the near futur…

ABS does what I tell it I want to do, giving me greater control of the vehicle. When I press the brake all the way down, it means I want to stop as fast as possible, which I can't easily do without ABS. AEB does whatever it wants, without any input from me, leading to "surprises". ABS is user engaged, AEB takes control away from the user. Stop being disingenuous.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#322

Post by jacquesm »

marklubi wrote: post #275
ddalcino wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you care to elaborate on what went wrong? The other comments here make ‘automatic emergency braking’ sound like a really good idea, and it’s hard for me to imagine that this particular feature would be so problematic. If you’re talking about other automatic steering features, that’s very different, and your comment makes more sense to me.

Anecdotal, but I was riding with my friend on the highway (~70 mph) with absolutely nobody in front of us, and the automatic braking kicked in out of nowhere. Thankfully the one other person on the road that was a bit behind us swerved and avoided rear ending us. After that experience, I don't want a vehicle with that functionality in it, and don't want other cars on the road having it. It's half-baked at best. It ha…

Make and model?

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#323

Post by jacquesm »

Eumenes wrote: post #93
jacquesm wrote: post #6

This almost got me into a serious accident, twice. Definitely would not recommend and I switched cars because of it. The last thing I need is buggy software with the capability of instantly changing the trajectory of my vehicle (slippery surfaces, cornering). A brand car as well (MB) so really, really disappointed, what should have been a safety feature actually was the opposite. Dealer said everything was fine so th…

I had a very similar problem - a mouse ate through my wiring harness and it was tripping my brakes lights out, which the ECU thought I was braking, and I couldn't accelerate. Took the dealer like 5 trips to figure it out. Insurance covered it. Btw, where'd you find that old car? Locally or get it shipped to you?

Locally.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#324

Post by Ros2 »

r00t4ccess wrote: post #54
ddalcino wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you care to elaborate on what went wrong? The other comments here make ‘automatic emergency braking’ sound like a really good idea, and it’s hard for me to imagine that this particular feature would be so problematic. If you’re talking about other automatic steering features, that’s very different, and your comment makes more sense to me.

Not the poster Vw golf r 2016 the sensor was low to the ground and it would randomly brake for stuff it thought was a threat like a cardboard box. Subaru crosstrek 2018 - would brake for no reason, cars turning up ahead of me, etc. VW atlas 2019 - brake for no reason would also scream at me and show a red symbol on the hud when nothing was in the road in front of me. Subaru impreza 2023 - brakes for turning vehicles…

There is a hardware button on Subarus to disable EyeSight when you go through the car wash.

Anecdotal, but the alarm before the auto braking in my Crosstrek (2020) saved me two times. And I was in the car with a friend who activated the auto braking when they had just purchased it and weren't used to driving it.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#326

Post by matheusmoreira »

ClassyJacket wrote: post #317
matheusmoreira wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wanting to have control over the vehicle is not some "gearhead forum" thing at all. I barely care about cars and I still care about this. I'm the driver, I should be in control and there's literally no need to justify it any further. Anything that forcibly takes away control is automatically wrong from a basic human dignity perspective. I couldn't care less what governments or insurers think, I'm the goddamn human an…

I strongly disagree. You are not the only person on the road, you are creating risk for other drivers and pedestrians every time you drive. Vehicle regulation should be based on the overall safest option, not 'dignity' or freedom or individualism anything like that.

So what? If that's the price to pay to maintain control, fine.

These precedents are also creating risk by the way. It hasn't been that long ago since news was posted here of security researchers remotely cutting off car engines or cars repossessing themselves if you don't pay on time. That's the sort of existential risk you're paving the way for by accepting "safety" in exchange for control. It's not really your car anymore, it's the government's car, the insurer's car. What other policies would they like to set, I wonder?

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#327

Post by dalyons »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #9
dalyons wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet I have it in my very real world (and unexciting) Subaru for years and it never does what you say. I’m guessing it has some idea of differential speeds , not just distance-to-object

so if someone merges over into your lane where you are it doesn't activate? I must not understand the point of this feature then.

Someone else explained, but AEB is not cruise control. It tries to stop you if and only if it genuinely thinks you are about to crash into a stationary object or and object traveling at such a different speed that it might as well be stationary. Ie, a potential crash, not an everyday lane merge situation

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#328

Post by justahuman74 »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #252
taeric wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that isn't a problem with numbers. That is a problem with letting your imagination run things. The scenarios and questions you ask are easy to explore in the data. If the number of crashes goes down, contrived scenarios don't really impact things. If they stay flat or go up, then you have to answer why. To emphasize, for your imagination here to be relevant, the number has to do one of those. If the number goes d…

I disagree. I've been a licensed driver for over 40 years. I had one minor fender-bender at 16 years old, learned my lesson, and haven't had another accident since. I'm an exceptionally good driver as evidenced by this, plus the fact that I've taken performance driving classes, simulators, and so forth. I, personally, am a much lower risk than the typical driver. Putting a drivers' aid device in my car may well incre…

I thought I was a low risk driver, then when doing a lot of hours riding a motorcycle it became very apparent how incredibly terrible of a car driver I was. So much general threat and risk was invisible as a car driver contained in a big metal box.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#329

Post by matheusmoreira »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #305
matheusmoreira wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wanting to have control over the vehicle is not some "gearhead forum" thing at all. I barely care about cars and I still care about this. I'm the driver, I should be in control and there's literally no need to justify it any further. Anything that forcibly takes away control is automatically wrong from a basic human dignity perspective. I couldn't care less what governments or insurers think, I'm the goddamn human an…

I'm baffled by this comment. For one thing, this is literally not how vehicle regulation has worked in any western country for at least half a century, probably longer. There are already legally mandated systems that take away driver control in certain circumstances, notably ABS. For another, the NPRM being discussed assumes that essentially 100% of new vehicles will eventually come with AEB systems in the near futur…

Huh? ABS doesn't take away my control, it improves my control by preventing conditions that would reduce traction. This system is always engaged by brake pedal input from my foot. It's not something that cars just do out of nowhere.

The emergency braking system will automatically stop the car without your input whenever it wants. Judging from this thread, that could be due to anything. False positives have been reported. People should absolutely be able to turn this thing off if they don't trust it.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#330

Post by dvdbloc »

ics wrote: post #50
jacquesm wrote: post #6

This almost got me into a serious accident, twice. Definitely would not recommend and I switched cars because of it. The last thing I need is buggy software with the capability of instantly changing the trajectory of my vehicle (slippery surfaces, cornering). A brand car as well (MB) so really, really disappointed, what should have been a safety feature actually was the opposite. Dealer said everything was fine so th…

I wrote up a long comment that got scrapped by my focus filter but I feel the need to voice strong agreement here. I have a recent Mazda which in almost all ways is my perfect car except for the newfangled safety features all new cars seem to have. Lane correction and emergency braking, even set to the lowest sensitivity levels, are bad to outright dangerous in city (and some country) driving. In NYC it's common to h…

I also had a very similar experience with lane assist trying to send me straight into a cyclist. Had a newish rental car with lane assist for a day and didn’t even really notice I had lane assist until driving out on a country road in California. Cyclist was up ahead staying nicely in the right of the lane and no one was around so I was giving him plenty of room driving to the left until the lane assist kicked in and pulled me rapidly almost straight into him. If I didn’t have a firm grip of the steering wheel it would have been much more dangerous. I feel bad for him as he was probably fearing for his life and thinking I was a horrible driver…
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