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The Framework Laptop 13

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Re: The Framework Laptop 13

#321

Post by dcow »

zamnos wrote: post #301
dcow wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they’re not locking you in, while other vendors clearly and deliberately are. Definitely the lesser evil. So even a utilitarian like you would choose Framework, provided all else is equal. They even promote 3rd party enclosures for the mainboard in this post so you can’t even say they’re not fostering the ecosystem when they can. It’s not incumbent upon Framework to actually provide competition. That’s a competit…

As companies trying to do open source have found out, throwing code over the wall does not a community make. Similarly, shoving specs onto their website but not engaging with the community (other laptop manufacturers in this case) does not make for a vibrant ecosystem of parts.

Um duh?!... That's why Framework engages with and promotes community efforts to build within the ecosystem they're fostering. Did you read TFA?

Re: The Framework Laptop 13

#322

Post by dathinab »

csdreamer7 wrote: post #288
dathinab wrote: post #287

I'm _really_ tempted to pre-order. But I need first answers first: - battery life for normal browser usage compared to the intel 11th gen version - does Linux works well (e.g. no intel 12th gen integrated graphic tearing problems or similar), sleep power saving not being grate doesn't matter

> - does Linux works well (e.g. no intel 12th gen integrated graphic tearing problems or similar), sleep power saving not being grate doesn't matter Probably not. AMD laptops have struggled in the past. Even Intel Alder Lake works better with 6.2, but I still have issues where it does not resume properly months after release, which was months after Intel released Alder Lake mobile. When I lift the laptop lid, it stay…

11th gen Intel didn't had that long lasting issues AFIK. It's likely related to 11th=>12th having been a big step and maybe a hasty one too, combined with a lot of GPU driver resources currently likely going to a partial rewrite of their driver components in context of them entering the dedicated GPU market.

And both support for the CPU and GPU arch they use already exist from other similar hardware. Similar the aspect that CPU and GPU are bundled together is also already handled by their current driver.

So as long as no of the interfaces or subtleties majorly changed wrt. what the driver has to do it could be proper day 1 Linux support (for CPU+GPU in normal "simple" usage).

It's not very likely thou.

And the "AI" feature likely will take forever to be nicely usable, but I don't need it.

Oh and it's not a major thing but they didn't had an AMD EFI before and I want to use custom platform keys for secure boot, so that is another point I have to check. But not being able to do so might not majorly affect my buying decisions as long as they commit to adding support in later EFI versions.

Re: The Framework Laptop 13

#323

Post by chrismorgan »

kibwen wrote: post #289
aksss wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is that Windows will occasionally not wake up properly, leaving the user to “choke it out” (power button for 5 sec to force a hard shut down, power button to power up). Sorry if you had any unsaved work. Personally, Hibernate works great, doesn’t require any battery life to sustain it, and always comes back with state intact, so it’s my go to.

> Hibernate works great Seconded. All of these modern "smart sleep" solutions are uniformly worse than just giving me a got-danged hibernate option.

> uniformly worse

Extremely false: hibernate is way slower. Sleep happens within a second and awakes within a second. Hibernate requires writing all your memory to disk; if you have, say, 15GB of memory in use and a disk that can read and write at 1 GB/sec (far from the fastest, but also extremely far from the slowest), that’s fifteen seconds. For many (probably most) people’s realistic situations, hibernate will take over a minute.

(Heh, my own laptop takes 4–8 minutes to hibernate if its CPU is slowed to 400 MHz to minimise power consumption, which incidentally happens automatically when it’s almost down to 0% battery power, shortly after which it triggers a suspend-then-hibernate, and the extra time that makes it take it brings it perilously close to running out of power before it finishes. Not certain why limiting the CPU has such a massive effect, but I’ve compared it when manually inducing similar circumstances by giving the CPU an impossibly low power envelope with `ryzenadj --stapm-limit 100 --fast-limit 100 --slow-limit 100`, which limits all cores to 400 MHz, and yeah, that makes hibernate slow.)

Re: The Framework Laptop 13

#324

Post by bobmaxup »

dathinab wrote: post #283
bobmaxup wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I put my Apple laptop to sleep for an extended period, I come back to it completely dead. It cannot even boot for an about an hour while it charges to a minimum level.

a Intel Apple laptop? because they kinda don't care much more about the intel devices they had produced

Yeah, unfortunate I suppose.

Re: The Framework Laptop 13

#325

Post by jacknews »

neogodless wrote: post #106
jacknews wrote: post #86

Where's the framework 'surface'?

The design philosophy of Framework seems to be diametrically opposed to Microsoft's Surface. If there is a market for modular transformable tablets, is it large enough to cover the expense of research and development?

Opposed to microsoft's version of the concept, perhaps.

To me, modular, upgradable, repairable fit the tablet form-factor even more than a laptop - you choose your own keyboard, mounting system (eg a folio case to use the combo as an actual laptop, vesa mount holes or adapter to stick it onto a monitor mount), etc.

Re: The Framework Laptop 13

#326

Post by dvd23 »

courgette wrote: post #162
dvd23 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for mine, there's even a long thread about it in Lenovo's forum (T14 gen1). I still think 4 days is not really great compared to my previous MacBook that could sleep for weeks.

Yeah, I kinda give up on great trackpad and insane, actual, battery life. It's been a while too, I'm remember that being a plus of Apple devices since 10+ years.

It's a bit crazy that it's been so long and it's still a major pain point for me on Linux. Apart from that, I really enjoy the machine. Not really an issue when it's plugged in at home, but annoying on the go...

Re: The Framework Laptop 13

#327

Post by dvd23 »

talhah wrote: post #243
dvd23 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for mine, there's even a long thread about it in Lenovo's forum (T14 gen1). I still think 4 days is not really great compared to my previous MacBook that could sleep for weeks.

Battery life is bad overall for this, at least on the sister T14s gen1. Is it the same experience for you and what tweaks have you made to increase battery life? According to this thread we might never get AMD pstate driver working. https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Other-Linux-Discussions/amd-pst...

Yes battery life is awful since day 1. I initially thought I had a faulty device or something. Apart from that the machine is great, it's really a shame. I tried a lot of various things mentioned in the forum, updated the BIOS, tested plenty of various configurations, to no avail.

Re: The Framework Laptop 13

#328

Post by dvd23 »

pimeys wrote: post #319
talhah wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CPPC needs to be enabled in BIOS for this and unfortunately that option isn't present. If you see the thread linked in previous comment, Lenovo has been advised not to enable the feature :/

Seems to work for me at least: > cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_driver amd-pstate And, it has a tremendous effect on battery life and the fan speed on the G3. Maybe it doesn't work with previous models?

As the parent said, apparently AMD recommended not to enable it for that generation [1]. That's the price to pay for having a first gen I suppose...

[1] https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Other-Linux-Discussions/amd-pst...

Re: The Framework Laptop 13

#330

Post by MichaelZuo »

mft_ wrote: post #272
mixmastamyk wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of the slots is to be able to rearrange them. If such options are limited, they may as well be standard ports, which would use less space. It basically negates a significant portion of the utility of the device.

I’d always thought the point of the slots was to provide choice to each user to match their preference, probably at the time of the initial purchase. Honestly, that one might want to regularly rearrange the ports hadn’t occurred to me.

It sounds like half the slots can't match the preferences of a substantial fraction of potential users?
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