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Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

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Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#321

Post by ghaff »

prawn wrote: post #314
jcranmer wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really a coordination problem, that's just a toll road that's not yet moved to all-electronic tolling. Of course, toll roads in the US do provide a coordination problem, and that's in the existence of noncompatible electronic toll systems. You have essentially three islands of interoperability in the US: the Northeast and Midwest are all using E-ZPass, the Southeast has some interoperability, and Kansas, O…

Yes, bit of a mixture. Sorry, I should've mentioned that (from memory) it was because they didn't have banknote readers or credit card payment and the US is still using dollar bills. So unless you had a bucket of very low denomination coins, you had to pay a physical person to then convert to coins and reach around to deposit them. I once used a toll bridge in the Eastern US that had no indication of payment options…

It almost doesn't matter in the US at this point as I basically don't use cash any longer but I mostly dislike $1/$2-ish coin denominations. It's a big enough amount that I can't basically ignore their existence but I can't stick them in a wallet.

Like the penny silliness--or really the fact that the US basically collectively decided that the currency denominations in widespread use in 1950 would be fine forever--it's essentially a self-correcting situation in that a lot of people don't use cash any longer.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#322

Post by jdmichal »

woodpanel wrote: post #164
kelnos wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really true? The only people who need/want to regularly travel across local transit boundaries are tech people? That seems unlikely, especially nowadays.

Where did I write „tech-people“? Yes, all tech people are part of the E-Mail-Caste, but not all of said Caste are techies.

I feel like you're not allowed to make up phrases like "E-Mail-Caste", not explain what it means, then get mad when others don't perfectly understand it...

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#323

Post by ulfw »

Scoundreller wrote: post #167
bombcar wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every transit system should have a “tourist day pass” that is moderately expensive but allows you to use anything for 24 hours or so.

Integrate it into my visa (stamp). I’m also surprised airports don’t integrate it into their passenger fees and boarding passes. But maybe that’s getting a little too multi-modal to handle.

Most visitors don't need visa stamps in their passport.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#324

Post by Scoundreller »

ulfw wrote: post #323
Scoundreller wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Integrate it into my visa (stamp). I’m also surprised airports don’t integrate it into their passenger fees and boarding passes. But maybe that’s getting a little too multi-modal to handle.

Most visitors don't need visa stamps in their passport.

Depends where you go and where you're coming from. Just a matter of time before it's all RFID'd into the passport or access is granted to to the central db to random transit cops.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#325

Post by eigenspace »

thanatos519 wrote: post #5
bleep_bloop wrote: post #2

Controversial opinion: Public transport should be publicly owned.

Even more: Public transport is a public good which should be funded by fossil fuel taxes and provided to users without cost.

Actually Germany is on their way to doing this.

They’re about to double the amount of carbon taxes levied on large trucks. That tax used to be used for building new roads but it’s now all being given over to new rail infrastructure.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#326

Post by lispm »

EngManagerIsMe wrote: post #275
snvzz wrote: post #267

Public, thus paid by everybody through taxes. Yet, for some reason, it can only be taken advantage of by people who can afford to pay the ticket. Nevermind the fact having the ticket system in the first place does cost money.

Agreed. This is actually a "why public systems fail" critique approaching from the left -- we assume systems need a cost to function correctly. For something like transit, collecting fares involves: 1) Systems and equipment to issue and collect fares -- boxes, kiosks, scanners, currency handling, staff to collect and deposit currency, arrangements with payment providers, educational materials about paying fares, webs…

> entering a bus or train requires a turnstile, tap, or other impediment that slows access

In Hamburg, where I live, there is nothing like that.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#327

Post by lispm »

snvzz wrote: post #267

Public, thus paid by everybody through taxes. Yet, for some reason, it can only be taken advantage of by people who can afford to pay the ticket. Nevermind the fact having the ticket system in the first place does cost money.

For people who can't afford the ticket, there can be special prices. For example in my hometown, people with low-income pay less. Kids from low-income families pay nothing.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#328

Post by EngManagerIsMe »

lispm wrote: post #326
EngManagerIsMe wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. This is actually a "why public systems fail" critique approaching from the left -- we assume systems need a cost to function correctly. For something like transit, collecting fares involves: 1) Systems and equipment to issue and collect fares -- boxes, kiosks, scanners, currency handling, staff to collect and deposit currency, arrangements with payment providers, educational materials about paying fares, webs…

> entering a bus or train requires a turnstile, tap, or other impediment that slows access In Hamburg, where I live, there is nothing like that.

Hamburg's busses don't have coin boxes or sell tickets/fares? You don't have any mechanism that requires swiping a card, tapping a device, showing a card/ticket to an operator, or otherwise proving you have, in fact, purchased a fare?

In Seattle, we tap our cards on something that looks like this: https://seattletransitblog.com/2011/06/28/dont-tap-orca-here...

It's pretty quick, but on the busiest bus routes it slows things down.

Edit: Reading up, it looks like they don't really have those things, and rely on a combination of very infrequent inspectors (which do slow things and cost money) and the honor system.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#329

Post by inferiorhuman »

jcranmer wrote: post #312
prawn wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably an advantage many places would have over somewhere like the US which is quite fragmented and struggles to consistently coordinate in solving broad problems. I always remember just 2-3 years ago, driving onto a toll road in the eastern USA and there was an attendant at the booth. You paid them in notes/coins, and the attendant got the coins in their hand, leant out of their box and deposited them in a payment…

That's not really a coordination problem, that's just a toll road that's not yet moved to all-electronic tolling. Of course, toll roads in the US do provide a coordination problem, and that's in the existence of noncompatible electronic toll systems. You have essentially three islands of interoperability in the US: the Northeast and Midwest are all using E-ZPass, the Southeast has some interoperability, and Kansas, O…

That law provided neither penalties nor funding for improving ETC compatibility, so it's no wonder most states haven't bothered. California, for instance, already has statewide interop – and has for decades. In fact you can use your transponder for parking at SFO. I believe the various toll agencies out here have been issuing "6C" compatible transponders since 2019 with the goal of completely phasing out the old "Title 21" transponders by 2024. ISO/IEC 18000-63 (6C) is being used by Washington, Colorado, Utah, Kentucky, Indiana, Georgia, North Carolina, and Louisiana.

For someone doing a lot of interstate driving NationalPass already offers transponders that are compatible with a bunch of different systems (E-ZPass, TxTag, Title 21, and EZ-TAG), supposedly also including 6C so there's that.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#330

Post by MrJohz »

Pamar wrote: post #316
danhor wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where? As far as I know, all the Deutsche Bahn Tickets for regional traffic use the Deutschlandtarif, which is accepted in all "normal" (excluding heritage trains and the likes) regional trains in all of Germany.

Is the Metronom (Hamburg-Bremen) covered by the 49€ ticket, too?

A quick Google seems to suggest that that's the case, and their website is advertising ways to buy the Deutschlandticket pretty clearly.
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