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The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#321

Post by Mordisquitos »

jwineinger wrote: post #311
Mordisquitos wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly doubt that Reddit per se has any significant effect whatsoever—which is not to say that it can't be an instance of the overarching platforms that cause the phenomenon. The reason I'm disregarding Reddit as a significant cause is threefold: a) Reddit is overwhelmingly male, and the most affected group are teenage girls b) Reddit is not that big of a platform in the teenage demographic c) Even if it were, its…

Do you have sources for the first two?

I was speaking mostly based on intuitions, but here are two quick sources I found which illustrate it:

a) Reddit is overwhelmingly male:

- Distribution of Reddit users by gender: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1255182/distribution-of-...

b) Reddit is not that big of a platform in the teenage demographic:

- Distribution of Reddit app users by age group: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1125159/reddit-us-app-us...

- Popularity of Reddit in teenagers as compared to other social media platforms: https://www.statista.com/statistics/250172/social-network-us...

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#322

Post by edmundsauto »

BryantD wrote: post #46

That’s interesting data. I wonder: is there any possibility that part of the change is because we’re telling kids that it’s okay to admit to depression? I.e., are we just reporting more accurately now?

There is also a feedback cycle - people open up about it more, reach a larger audience who sees this modeled/discussed, making it more likely for them to A) be aware in their own life and B) mirror and amplify.

Bad metaphor - if we think of ideas spreading between people like neurons, we have increased the interconnectedness (social reach) and decreased the activation energy (removed stigma/provided language/triggered introspection).

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#323

Post by naasking »

PuppyTailWags wrote: post #288
naasking wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are way overstating this. Haidt might have been one of the early ones raising alarm bells, but it's well established now that the cohort of people declaring themselves to be trans has shifted dramatically to young girls only very recently [1]. [1] https://www.bmj.com/content/380/bmj.p382

Your article doesn't seem to be quite authoritative: It shows there's actually a lot of debate about this subject. There's even a responses section that shows there's some significant issues with the article and claiming it's not neutral, leaving out significant statistics like a less than 1% regret rate of trans affirming procedures (less than a knee surgery). I think it's still up in the air, frankly.

What is authoritative is the evidence. The cohort WPATH was familiar with before 2010 and for which we have considerable data was older male-to-female transitioners. This cohort has changed significantly per the article, which is why some people are raising concerns about the lack of quality safety data for minors.

Furthermore, only the US has really pushed gender affirming care for minors to this degree. Every other country has backed away from it due to low quality evidence. You know what else those countries have that the US doesn't? Universal healthcare that creates wildly different healthcare priorities. Consider that when when evaluating neutrality.

> leaving out significant statistics like a less than 1% regret rate of trans affirming procedures (less than a knee surgery)

The article and the responses make clear that transitioners are not followed consistently, so this evaluation is based on very spotty data. The fact is we don't know how common regret is.

Even the responses that are pro-gender affirming care acknowledge that the data supporting long-term quality of life improvements is poor.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#324

Post by EntrePrescott »

That article (i.e. the author) seems to have a weird understanding of mathematics:

> "Note that there are two ways to calculate increases. We can measure an increase in absolute terms, e.g., a rise from 5% to 15% of teens with a diagnosis is a ten percentage-point increase, or we can report it in relative terms, e.g., a rise from 5% to 15% is a 300% increase, relative to the anchor point"

Uhm… maybe in an "alternative mathematics" universe? Where I learned math, an increase from 100% of the anchor value to 300% of the anchor value is not a relative increase of 300% but of 300%-100%=200%.

In contrast, A "300% increase, relative to the anchor point" would be adding 300% of the anchor value to the 100% of it that it already has, i.e. resulting in an end value of 400% of the anchor value. So in the case presented by the article quote, to come back to the absolute terms, it would be a rise from 5% to 20%, not to 15%.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#325

Post by tick_tock_tick »

irq wrote: post #250
ttt3ts wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the world has always had issues and the lense through which we now view the world is an everpresent fear coaster. Step away from the news & social media for a few months. You can't effect the outcome anyway and you might find you're happier.

Ignorance is indeed bliss, right up until they’re at your door. I like to have advance warning.

Isn't it the opposite? For all those topics with even a bit of research they are not even close to as concerning as the media presents it as. If people were more informed they'd have less issue it's this weird in-between state where they know about the issue but don't know enough to understand it's not really that big of a deal.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#326

Post by carimura »

zamnos wrote: post #142
evanmoran wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We did, but we didn't have endless short videos to scroll through.

Yeah, instead we had our teachers reassure us that if we saw a nuclear explosion that we should hid under our desks and that would protect us. We ran drills practicing this, as if it were expected to happen any moment now. I agree with you that it's worse these days. Now, the kids practice active shooter drills. It turns out the USSR never did launch the missiles, but kids shooting up their school is so common it bar…

It surprises me that folks (presumably technical) regress to the "same thing as the old thing" logic. I'm not downplaying the end-of-times drama every generation surely went through, but whatever drill you can think of, it ended, and kids went home, and they most likely played outside. At worst they sat in front of the news which didn't have to compete with the Internet and YouTube thus was very different.

Now? They go through a drill, leave, check their phone 4,000 times between that drill and dinner time which gives them a constant stream of a) the world is terrible, b) the other side is evil, c) your peers are all better looking, smarter, richer, and more popular than you.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#327

Post by funnym0nk3y »

To me the theory seems to not fully explain the data, at least not the switch in phone types and instagram. IMHO it takes some time for a mental illness to form and the right circumstances are needed. It's nothing you catch like a cold.

I think the causes are multifactorial. First, you need a social structure that promotes or at least not inhibits mental illness. That I think is given in industrialized countries because of high stress for parents, little commitment among people and always increasing speed of life. In addition the middle class got smaller and smaller. Three are only two outcomes, poor or rich with little in-between. Then you need some awareness of mental illness. Even today mental illness is highly stigmatized, but back then it was even worse. There are a lot of older people who are visibly not well but won't get treatment for whatever reason and thus won't show up in statistics. And then, yes the media in general. My mum told me that back when she was young the sentiment of the media was more positive, there were articles about achievements without a critical differentiation. More negative news more frequently. All of that set the stage for young people to feel the need to get ahead to survive combined with a larger group for comparison results in a feeling of hopelessness in many.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#328

Post by tick_tock_tick »

amilios wrote: post #207

(Seemingly) Inevitable climate change and ecological destruction, growing income inequality and falling standards of living, a deathly pandemic that's still killing people while we pretend everything is back to normal (+ long covid probably bringing about a disability crisis in 3-5 years), increasing tensions between various nuclear-capable states (Russia, China) and the West, changes in the age distribution in most…

How do we fix this complete disconnect from reality? I guess in the same vein how did they get such a incorrect view of the world state in the first place?

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#329

Post by spiralx »

PuppyTailWags wrote: post #166

Its interesting that this cites a "mental illness epidemic" but only seems to cover anxiety/depression. I want statistics on ADHD, PTSD, autism, eating disorders, psychosis, and personality disorders too! If there is a major rise in ED (primarily women) it would explain why there are so many hospitalizations, because EDs are deadly.

I assume that would undermine the argument, as ADHD and other disorders are underdiagnosed in girls and women compared to men. And in fact anxiety and depression are most likely underdiagnosed in boys and men, which also helps their argument even more. Both of these make me sceptical of this "epidemic", plus Haidt isn't someone I trust to be impartial or accurate nowadays.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#330

Post by thelopa »

notch898a wrote: post #319
thelopa wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You optimize for the common case, not the uncommon one. Shouldn’t we figure out why shootings in general are happening rather than fixating on a specific case because it involved an unpopular minority group?

I think searching for a general common solution is precisely why we are getting nowhere. It may be there are some "unpopular" opinions that turn out to be factors. Many small pieces make a large one, and important hints often come in unexpected places.

But, again, why are you focusing on a group that is statistically less likely to commit mass shootings compared to the average person? Even if you find some root cause for trans shooters, you’d be, at best, eliminating what amounts to about 0.1% of cases. Why not look at groups that are over represented?
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