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Framework Laptop 16

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Re: Framework Laptop 16

#321

Post by csdvrx »

panick21_ wrote: post #104

One of my favorite things for keyboards is the ThinkPad feature where the Page Up and Page Down is above the Left and Right key. I don't understand why others don't do this, its so practical. Specially in cases like this, there is just an empty space there. Why not put 2 more keys? ThinkPad also makes them full sized keys, that would be even better. But just having empty space? Why?

> One of my favorite things for keyboards is the ThinkPad feature where the Page Up and Page Down is above the Left and Right key. I don't understand why others don't do this, its so practical.

Same. After falling in love with this layout, I just refuse to buy a keyboard that doesn't have them. These 2 keys alone are at least 50% of my decision to refuse to even bother with Apple hardware (the lack of OLED being another good 30%)

I fail to understand how people can accidentally hit a Page key instead of a arrow key, if they know touch typing and use the little bump on the Down key (like the F ahd J key) to reposition their finger.

In the worst case, they could disable these keys. Meanwhile, I have to suffer their non existance, or even worse: a ridiculously large left and right key, with a minuscule up and down key.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#322

Post by tobz1000 »

AlexDragusin wrote: post #280
causi wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are there still only tiny slivered arrow keys when the palm rest is so big you could park a car on it?

Indeed, all the space could be used to fit a keyboard in this manner very nicely https://imgur.com/a/V0Ykw1D and make this and any laptop immensely more usable.

I'd love to see this design. There's something similar on the HP Omen 16: https://i.imgur.com/R4O5zzU.png

Not sure why 99% of laptops see a numpad as a higher priority than matching a desktop keyboard layout.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#323

Post by hollerith »

AlexDragusin wrote: post #280
causi wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are there still only tiny slivered arrow keys when the palm rest is so big you could park a car on it?

Indeed, all the space could be used to fit a keyboard in this manner very nicely https://imgur.com/a/V0Ykw1D and make this and any laptop immensely more usable.

To whoever decides to manufacture and sell a keyboard (for the Framework Laptop 16) with this layout: please take my money!

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#324

Post by kettro »

chrismorgan wrote: post #152
apetrovic wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's easier to touch empty space and adjust fingers. Back when I worked on Thinkpad, I really hated these keys, whenever I accidentally pressed them. I don't say you're wrong, just it's a matter of taste. It's the same with mechanical keyboards - I can't use these compact 75% keyboards where arrows/Pg Up/Pg Down/Home/End are flush with other keys; but a bit "exploded" layout, with just a bit of space between…

Spacing is heavily underrated in current laptop keyboard design. Consider another part of the keyboard: the function key row. On traditional keyboards, it was grouped with gaps between the groups: Esc, F1–F4, F5–F8, F9–F12. (Laptop keyboards will commonly have an extra key or two at the right end, such as Delete and Insert, which historically were part of other clusters.) This grouping is excellent for spatial memory…

Thinkpads still have the F row spacing, though it is small. Their layout is truly the best in laptops.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#325

Post by anotheryou »

I want a stand-alone qmk ultra flat chicklet keyboard!

Does anyone know what the protocol they use is? I'd assume for the keyboard it might be usb. So maybe all I'd need is to solder a flex-adapter to a usb plug and 3D print a case.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#326

Post by tshaddox »

Runways wrote: post #211
nrp wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ve been very deliberate about making this not a traditional gaming laptop, but a laptop that can be configured with enough performance to play intense games. You can configure it without the Graphics Module and have a high-performance 16” notebook with reconfigurable input and easy repairability and upgradeabilty.

If you could make it so you can completely turn off the dGPU through software (boot menu?), pulling no power, it would be insane. I would love the power of a dGPU to play casually on trips but turn it off for normal use when I'm just working. Also, I LOVE that it wouldn't look like a gaming laptop. I'm tired of the gamer-esque design cues, even when they're subtle (RGB keyboards are okay if configurable).

Heck, I'd love to not even carry the GPU unless I want to use it. What ever happened to external GPUs for mobile gaming? I faintly remember hearing about them years ago, but I don't know if there were ever practical consumer/prosumer products. I imagine it's not uncommon for some laptop users to carry Thunderbolt docks that are pretty beefy (the one I use weighs a full pound, although I almost never carry it with me), and I would bet you could fit a decent mobile GPU in a similar or smaller form factor.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#327

Post by kuschku »

zajio1am wrote: post #235
kuschku wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> DPI scaling hackery Under X11 with KDE, or under Windows, that's no problem whatsoever. 144dpi isn't any more hacky than 96dpi or 192dpi. It's only macOS, Gnome and Wayland that require 1x or 2x scaling (which is absolutely mind-bogglingly ridiculous, and anyone that contributed to that or encouraged that should be banned from ever touching UI code again).

Fractional scaling is just broken by design. If you have combined vector/bitmap graphics (like most web pages) designed for 'canonical' DPI, you can either break proportions between vectors and bitmaps (rendering vectors with proper DPI, while for bitmaps use nearest integer scale), or render everything with proper scale and introduce artifacts like blurring of sharp edges to bitmaps.

Why is that broken by design? You'll never see content that's in integer scale of its original source anyway. e.g., many Sony cameras have a 6K sensor but downscale (not binning) the image to 4K.

Android btw uses the same type of scaling – you'll just get slightly blurry edges, but that's not much of an issue.

It's much better to have slight blurring around the few rare edges where legacy bitmaps are used.

The alternatives are

1) full-screen blurring, broken gamma correction and wasted performance (e.g. rendering at 2x to display at 1x) of full-screen scaling

2) content that's not the correct scale, making it too small or too large to work with.

I'd much rather have a situation where the 1% of content that uses legacy bitmaps is blurry vs EVERYTHING being blurry.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#328

Post by ofchnofc »

Runways wrote: post #240
sudosysgen wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can completely turn off dGPUs from software nowadays. In theory the driver should do it for you when it's not in use (And I find this works well for me), but you can also forcefully turn them off, both on Windows and Linux, such that they draw exactly 0W.

Hmmm. My experience with XPS 15s is you can turn it off with software in Linux, but it was pretty technical (not something average users would be keen on). I wasn't sure if that was the case for most laptops. It definitely wasn't drawing 0W when I was just coding/browsing/etc though, it doubled the battery life in Linux when I turned it off.

ASUS laptops, as of 6.1, I think, have kernel support and a userspace CLI and GUI to trivially configure this stuff (`asusctl`). In Windows, you can use GHelper and avoid the hundreds of megabytes of gaudy crap that is Armory Crate to configure this as well.

`asusctl` (the CLI), and `rog-control-center` (the GUI) lets you configure fan curves, "ultimate mode" (mux switch), LED lights, effects, panel overdrive, battery charge limit and more

And then `supergfxctl`, when "ultimate mode" is disabled, allows you to configure "Hybrid" or "Integrated"(-only) graphics modes.

For completeness/disclosure, flipping the mux switch aka Ultimate mode on/off) requires reboot, though it seems this may become unnecessary with new/future hybrid graphics tech in laptops.

ASUS should shower the developer in money, this G14 2022, all AMD is the most satisfying, best, complete out of box Linux experience I've ever had. And I've owned a lot of Lenovos, Dells, etc.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#329

Post by reirob »

jojobas wrote: post #46
Arch-TK wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many years exactly? I am at almost 9 years of use and I have not felt the slightest hint of any problem (for reference I have in the past suffered from carpal tunnel related issues so I know what it feels like).

25 years, no issues. Maybe with sensitivity way down you do start pressing too much on it.

Same here

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#330

Post by LocalPCGuy »

csdvrx wrote: post #319
apetrovic wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's easier to touch empty space and adjust fingers. Back when I worked on Thinkpad, I really hated these keys, whenever I accidentally pressed them. I don't say you're wrong, just it's a matter of taste. It's the same with mechanical keyboards - I can't use these compact 75% keyboards where arrows/Pg Up/Pg Down/Home/End are flush with other keys; but a bit "exploded" layout, with just a bit of space between…

> Back when I worked on Thinkpad, I really hated these keys, whenever I accidentally pressed them. A key can be disabled. An empty space can't be filled with a key.

Disabling a key does not help with the spacial issues having a key there in the first place adds for some folks.
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