I know a lot of programmers who did poorly in secondary school, but thrived in college.
In the past, apprenticeships were an extension of high school, not a replacement for college.
I hope they get it right this time.
More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships
321–330 of 730 posts
Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
> this completely cripples them in the future when they could otherwise have had great careers > It's good that students are turning away now Conspiracy theory: the powers that be, are not dumb, they know this, and rely in this to increase their stability by eliminating the competition and the ambitious. Scared people make bad decisions; their replacement for neutering-via-college is not likely to be as easy to deal…
This seems really funny to me. There’s been a huge push by elites and right-leaning politicians in particular to downplay college education and to trot out blue-collar workers, to convince people not to go to college. Joe the Plumber, for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_the_Plumber Conservatives and businesses want more people to take low-paying jobs, and having the masses be educated threatens their abili…
> Conservatives and businesses want more people to take low-paying jobs, and having the masses be educated threatens their ability to pay minimum wage.
Not having tradesman threatens the ability of society as we know it to continue. We aren't going to get far without carpenters and plumbers. These jobs simply need to pay more.
> and it really very much undermines the notion that somehow people are getting tricked into going to college.
It's also quite possible for them to come out of college $40k in debt, with no job to show for it, and end up struggling to pay that off for the rest of their lives.
Idk about the article though, it opens by saying this person had a free ride on the table. They probably should have taken it.
Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships
#323College seems to have ~3 uses from students' perspectives: 1. A trade school for technical professionals who actually need specialist education (scientists, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.) 2. A finishing school for the elite 3. A blood sports arena for the brilliant to complete for professorships (almost all of whom will lose and be saddled with 6 figures of debt and 7 figures of opportunity cost) A lot of people…
Might be considered part of #2, but "feeder program for professional athletes" would be another goal for some.
Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships
#324As someone who has worked two of the most intensive blue collar jobs, people should be wary of romanticizing blue collar work. Blue collar workers are expected to really work at their jobs. White collar workers can chill if there is no work to be done, or be sent home early with pay, or take a relaxation day and just browse the internet and listen to podcasts. They have perks, you see white collar workers leaving wor…
Its going to be fascinating how the preference for WFH affects the job market. I'd imagine on-location jobs to get paid more as supply dries up and everyone wants to work from home. Teachers/nurses/chefs were underpaid before, little wonder there is a shortage now, I expect they need much higher wages.
Teacher salaries aren’t so flexible. It will just result in lowering the hiring standards.
Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships
#325Rant: I feel like most people haven't really thought about why colleges are so expensive now. It is because of the federally guaranteed student loans. It means there's pretty much no downside to banks loaning an arbitrarily large amount, because if the student doesn't pay it back, the government will. And since most 18 year old students have pretty much zero price sensitivity, and they now have unlimited funds, colle…
>It means there's pretty much no downside to banks loaning an arbitrarily large amount, because if the student doesn't pay it back, the government will.
Obama administration ended this in 2010:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Family_Education_Loan_...
The problem that remained, of course, is the federal government itself lends students a blank check as long as the check is deposited at an “accredited” university.
Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships
#326As someone who has worked two of the most intensive blue collar jobs, people should be wary of romanticizing blue collar work. Blue collar workers are expected to really work at their jobs. White collar workers can chill if there is no work to be done, or be sent home early with pay, or take a relaxation day and just browse the internet and listen to podcasts. They have perks, you see white collar workers leaving wor…
If I was rich I would still make sure my kids worked at least one blue collar job in their teens. There's no substitute for first-hand experience in that world.
That’s pretty much all high school kids are qualified for. With some exception. Well, unskilled labor at least. Not quite synonymous with blue color but close.
Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
> fields that don't truly need the education Even if that's true, isn't part of the problem that a lot of those office jobs that don't absolutely need the knowledge still expect a bachelor's degree? Even if it was nothing more than "finishing school," you're going to have a hard time finding a job in HR, sales, etc. without college.
What is meant by finishing school in this thread? I have a feeling this is not the definition being used https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finishing_school
That's exactly what it's referring to, but in a derogatory way, and more gender-neutral. I.e., a place that teaches people how to act professional-class, how to have the correct opinions and prejudices, the correct conditioned responses, the correct verbal tics, and so on.
Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships
#328One thing these articles usually fail to mention is the fact that college/university is also a huge social experience. I'm a young person who took an apprenticeship instead of going to university - only one of my high school friends did the same as me, literally everybody else went onto university. I'm from a small town, there's not much going on and apart from when all my friends come back at Christmas and those few…
Other social experiences that you pay a lot for include country clubs and Scientology.
Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships
#329Is there where ChatGPT and GPT-4 and the like can be helpful? I know a few days the discussion of AI tutors was double edged, but if we focus on the later stages of schooling / career path, can AI tutors be useful
for advancing the fields where apprenticeships make sense?
Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships
#330Rant: I feel like most people haven't really thought about why colleges are so expensive now. It is because of the federally guaranteed student loans. It means there's pretty much no downside to banks loaning an arbitrarily large amount, because if the student doesn't pay it back, the government will. And since most 18 year old students have pretty much zero price sensitivity, and they now have unlimited funds, colle…
Yea, pretty much entirely due to the loan system. It’s also sustains worthless departments.