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Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

cnbc.com

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Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#321

Post by tsgagnon »

buildbot wrote: post #176
jlv2 wrote: post #154

There really needs to be a distinction between an actual recall (my Model S had one to change the latch on the frunk) and this type of "recall" that is nothing more than an OTA software update.

Why? It involves a safety system! That needs to be tracked publicly and updated! Nothing more than an OTA - does not mean much when everything is fly by wire and a bug could mean your car does not stop accelerating or something.

Why? It involves a safety system! That needs to be tracked publicly and updated! Nothing more than an OTA - does not mean much when everything is fly by wire and a bug could mean your car does not stop accelerating or something.

True, but by announcing things in this fashion it is making Tesla look bad. Regulations really need to be updated so that car makers can hide this type of problem from customers as easily as possible. Especially when it comes to Tesla, regulators really need to bend over backwards to prevent articles from being written that could be interpreted in a negative way.

Or are people concerned about the word "recall" for a different reason?

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#323

Post by georgeg23 »

ckwalsh wrote: post #212

I have a Model 3, and was excited to get the FSD beta access about a month ago. I don't use it super regularly, but it's neat. This morning I tried to turn it on, and the car immediately veered left into the oncoming lane on a straight, 2 lane road. Fortunately, there were no other vehicles nearby. I immediately turned it off in the settings, and have no intention of re-enabling.

I had the exact same issue, it was old M3 hardware.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#324

Post by alluro2 »

I generally root for Tesla as a former underdog who lit the fire under the asses of stagnating manufacturers, but, seeing videos of FSD in action, I'm fully on the side of people who think that calling it FSD should be considered fraud.

Given how much time and data they had so far, and the state it's in, it really makes news like Zoox getting a testing permit for public roads, without any manual controls in the vehicle, seem crazy irresponsible and dangerous. Is it possible that they are just that much better at cracking autonomous driving?

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#325

Post by worik »

justapassenger wrote: post #158
sockaddr wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. You need an AGI behind that vision for that premise to work. Even a fruit-fly class AGI would do it.

Flies hit windows and cars. Even much more complex animals cannot manage effectively moving in a complex environment without hitting each other (like flocks of sheep). There's no data that would support that anything than human level AGI is required to drive cars with how current infrastructure looks like.

> Even much more complex animals cannot manage effectively moving in a complex environment without hitting each other (like flocks of sheep).

No. You have to force flocking animals into extreme circumstances to have them start crashing,.

Sounds like the Tesla cannot manage that. Not even "bird brained".

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#326

Post by giobox »

CyanLite2 wrote: post #280
winter_blue wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FSD Beta is a free[1] opt-in beta. You have to basically drive like a grandpa for a few months to even be eligible. They give you a driving score, and if you take all the fun out of driving a Tesla, then you might become eligible for FSD Beta. I spent months trying, and never got my driving score to the point of qualifying for FSD Beta. I think you need to have of a score of 98 or 99 (and I was in the 70s). [1] The B…

FSD Beta still costs $15k just to be part of the beta program. Yes, you have to pay $15k just to apply to the beta program, and you still may not get accepted into the program.

Or 199 dollars + taxes a month - there is a pay as you go option. Not saying this is great, but you can try it for a month for ~200 bucks. This is how I tried FSD beta for a month - certainly wasn't prepared to pay 15k up front.

The safety score check stuff is largely gone away today - anyone who pays 200 bucks can click the beta opt in and get it almost straight away now, there is ~zero risk of not getting the beta if you really want it, live in US or Canada, and are prepared to pay.

> https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-subscription...

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#327

Post by connicpu »

reilly3000 wrote: post #229
sentientslug wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is most likely a legislative issue with NHTSA, I don't think they have a mechanism by which they can enforce a software update since the concept didn't exist when recalls were first implemented.

This is the correct answer. The question is, how do we get better at regulating reality faster?

Electing congresspeople who actually stay on top of the expert consensus in various regulated fields is the only way the frameworks themselves can be improved.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#328

Post by pja »

sergiotapia wrote: post #86

I thought emperically, statistically, the number of crashes from FSD was drastically lower than human drivers. Was this number hogwash or is this just lawboys saying the number must be 0 before it's allowed on the road? If so, that's pretty crazy and people will die because of this decision.

You can’t compare FSD crashes / mile with human data for a couple of reasons.

The primary one is:

1) FSD turns itself off whenever things get too difficult or complex for it. Human drivers don’t get to do this. Recent crowdsourced data suggests a disengagment every 6 miles of driving: https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/status/1602774341602639872

If you eliminate all the difficult bits of driving I bet you could eliminate a lot of human driver crashes from your statistics too!

A secondary issue, but relevant if you care about honesty in statistical comparisons is

2) The average vehicle & driver in the non-Tesla population is completely different. Unless you correct for these differences somehow, any comparison you might make is suspect.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#329

Post by jehb »

causi wrote: post #5

I'm astonished consumers are still paying fifteen thousand dollars to be guinea pigs for this bullshit. No car that currently has tires on the road is going to let you fall asleep in your driveway and wake up at work.

I mean, to be honest, I'm completely unwilling to pay any additional cost for a license to proprietary software that on my vehicle, and I won't even consider a brand that offers paid software upgrades to their vehicles, entirely on principle. See the recent case around BMW offering subscriptions for heated seats. Just no, absolutely not. Reject faux ownership.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#330

Post by bischofs »

tsgagnon wrote: post #321
buildbot wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It involves a safety system! That needs to be tracked publicly and updated! Nothing more than an OTA - does not mean much when everything is fly by wire and a bug could mean your car does not stop accelerating or something.

Why? It involves a safety system! That needs to be tracked publicly and updated! Nothing more than an OTA - does not mean much when everything is fly by wire and a bug could mean your car does not stop accelerating or something. True, but by announcing things in this fashion it is making Tesla look bad. Regulations really need to be updated so that car makers can hide this type of problem from customers as easily as…

Regulators dont care about the perception of a recall, they care about the safety of the consumers and more importantly the general public who have not signed up for Teslas beta program.
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