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Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

bennettnotes.com

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Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a false dichotomy. Nobody sane is arguing for a vulnerable computer. The desire is just less friction and fewer restrictions on what code can be written and executed by the owner on the device. Really this is what virtualization is for, and the only thing keeping mobile operating systems working as they do is that most consumers don't demand the same features as businesses, but in my opinion they shou…

Most malware is executed by the machine's owner in some sense. The level of friction that establishes that the owner knows what's going on and actually intends to execute particular code with particular privileges is not small. It's important that it be surmountable, but it's not small.

In a properly virtualized environment it doesn't matter since all resources are decoupled from the environment the software runs in.

This gives all the control back to the user. Nobody should be bullied into just accepting all permissions the developer wants. The developer should be forced to gracefully degrade their UX when their dependencies are denied without preventing access to the core service and should be sued into oblivion when they violate this basic promise under accessibility laws.

From a developer perspective virtualization would also make accomplishing this much easier since they no longer have to be limited to crappy APIs that are not just sometimes vulnerable and incompatible but restricted on purpose under bogus pretense.

If the user can't determine what an app does with the resources it wants it should be trivial for the OS to mock the resources, see what happens, and report it back to the user. i.e. when enabling networking the app attempts to phone home somewhere shady, when enabling file system access it attempts to read/write outside its own directories, etc. I am pretty sure this would not scare off users, but make them curious.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#322
I'm the author of several macOS-specific open source projects, and of several cross-platform open source projects, as well. This has been the case for several years.

Apple effectively decides what can run on macOS, and if you don't pay their yearly toll and jump through their hoops, your apps won't run on users' macOS installations. If you don't pay them, Apple will make it seem like your app is either broken or malicious to unsuspecting users.

It's a racket and it's not worth the trouble to deal with it.

Users don't understand why they can't run the un-Notarized apps they want to run. Those are the people who suffer.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#323
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does letting people freely sideload apps conflict with this philosophy? You can still use your iPad as the world's most expensive e-reader if you want, letting other people run Linux on it doesn't somehow ruin your experience.

My philosophy is that Apple can do whatever they want (as long as legal and ethical). They made a thing, and you bought it. Why would anyone with a bent on free computing walk into what they know to be a closed ecosystem. Just buy an Android phone. It’s like flying to a foreign country and expecting everyone to English to you imo…

"Why would anyone with a bent on privacy walk into what they know to be spyware? Just buy an iPhone."

Oh, wait...

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#324
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is slippery-slope fearmongering. In reality, Apple has gone out of its way to ensure that Apple Silicon Macs can boot other operating systems if the user so desires, and can do so without sacrificing security.

How they have "gone out of their way" ?

I can't find it anymore, but one of the more recent updates on Asahi Linux pointed out that there were certain bootloader features that were more complicated to include than to leave out. They were unnecessary for macOS to boot, but they allowed for other OSes to run more easily. Basically Apple had to put in more effort in order to allow Linux to boot.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually mean all the little Vista-style popups that recent macOS versions introduced, on top of the quarantine and notarization bullshit which gets harder to skip in each release. Just give me a simple checkbox in the system settings that this is a "developer machine and I know what I'm doing" which disables all that stuff and it would be fine.

Malware teams would loooooove that checkbox.

Yes they would, and so would I... a developer who likes running unsigned executables and doesn't like having to jump through hoops to enable them... each time I download a new one.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#326
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, you are right. Jobs himself said that he wanted to go beyond selling computers, and sell information appliances. In that respect, he and Woz were diametrically opposed. When he was squeezed out of management in his own company, it is not a coïncidence that he elbowed his way into Jef Raskin's Macintosh project: Raskin was also interested in building information appliances, the difference between the two men wa…

>But Jobs never lost his vision that Apple should sell appliances, and people who wanted to "wrench their own devices" should buy PCs. You present an excellent historical case of how Apple got here, but here's where I see a dichotomy: Back in the day, tools like RezEdit, Hypercard, AppleScript came included. There were countless "apps" to reconfigure how the Mac looked and felt to create a personalized experience. Av…

Speaking of HyperCard:

Inspired by a mind-expanding LSD journey in 1985, I designed the HyperCard authoring system that enabled non-programmers to make their own interactive media. HyperCard used a metaphor of stacks of cards containing graphics, text, buttons, and links that could take you to another card. The HyperTalk scripting language implemented by Dan Winkler was a gentle introduction to event-based programming. Steve Jobs wanted me to leave Apple and join him at Next, but I chose to stay with Apple to finish HyperCard. Apple published HyperCard in 1987, six years before Mosaic, the first web browser.

—Bill Atkinson https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&stor...

My recollection of HyperCard is that it was a grassroots success, Apple did not invest in it, Apple never made a compiler to turn stacks into Mac apps, &c. I personally did two professional HyperCard stacks. One was an internal tool used by a consulting client. The other was a configuration tool for a very successful (at the time) Java development suite. I wrote it in a weekend to meet a deadline, which is why it was written in HyperCard and compiled to run on all our supported operating systems using a third-party compiler.

My employer was aghast at this, our mantra was that if we’re selling Java tools, wherever possible we would write them in Java. I thought I was a decent programmer at the time, but no way I could bang out a robust customer-facing tool in a weekend using Swing or AWT or whatever.

It was eventually rewritten in Java by a co-op student, it took their entire work term. So eventually, everyone was happy. But HyperCard got the job done when shipping fast mattered.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#327
post #136
post #68

What bothers me about this -- and it bothered me enough to leave the platform -- is not fees, or "hobby computing," or "it's just for my own use," or trying to figure out why this or that would be in Apple's interest. What bothers me is that it feels like an offense against the entire notion of what a computer is. I am, of course, aware that many (perhaps most) computers in the world are effectively appliances, but a…

iOS devices are not "real" computers. They're more comparable to game consoles or TV set top boxes. They're special purpose computing devices that can only run approved software. Apple does sell real computers under the Mac line.

> iOS devices are not "real" computers. They're more comparable to game consoles or TV set top boxes. They're special purpose computing devices that can only run approved software.

You can use this argument to justify anything companies want to lock down.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#328
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What bothers me is that it feels like an offense against the entire notion of a computer is . Yeah, as others are also saying, welcome to the 21st Century where they're not really computers anymore that they're selling. Your mistake is to still believe that they are. I view the phone the way perhaps a ham (ham radio operator) viewed the transistor radio. For those of us where a computer is a tool to build with, a t…

That's why developments like PinePhone are important - just yesterday I played with booting 11 different Linux distros on it. The only limitation is battery life but I guess some backporting from Android should resolve that one as well.

I want convergence so bad. To be able to just plop my phone into a dock after work and have my home linux user setup display on the monitors. The pinephone still feels so far away from the phone side of things, but succeeding in the computer side of things. I haven't tried the Pinephone Pro yet, but my Pinephone left so much to be desired.

I hope linux phone enthusiasts can keep their spirits up for the next 5+ years it feels like it will take to make a daily driver open hardware phone happen.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#330
post #68

What bothers me about this -- and it bothered me enough to leave the platform -- is not fees, or "hobby computing," or "it's just for my own use," or trying to figure out why this or that would be in Apple's interest. What bothers me is that it feels like an offense against the entire notion of what a computer is. I am, of course, aware that many (perhaps most) computers in the world are effectively appliances, but a…

> offence against the entire notion of what a computer is

YES! I feel offended in Apple's ecosystem. Consistently.

When I can't upgrade, can’t even fix my own overpriced laptop because of soldered parts.

When I can't copy MY photos out of MY device, without uploading it to Apple's cloud.

When I can't buy OEM parts for older Apple devices because Apple put a noose around independent suppliers.

When (like the OP found) I can’t run MY CODE on MY DEVICE without notarizing and authorizing.

There's a much longer tail of issues I can fix and address myself.

These are fundamental, They eclipse all other (hard) things Apple deserves credit for like hardware quality and performance and integration with other Apple products. Despite their price gouging.

I am myself pulling away from Apple. I do not buy them any more. Don’t recommend Apple to any makers and hackers. The only persona I see happy using Apple laptops are ones who don't care about these. Those that got them handed down from work. They don’t tinker with them. They use them like appliances.

They don’t have my problems. I do.

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