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Why America’s Railroads Refuse to Give Their Workers Paid Leave

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321–330 of 388 posts

Re: Why America’s Railroads Refuse to Give Their Workers Paid Leave

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they don't want to give up good pay at the rail road to make minimum moolah flipping ham burgers at Mac Donald's.

These people are ultra-reliable, proven workers with a lot of skills. They could move to construction for similar or better pay. You don't make any serious coin with the railroad unless you are working overtime. They all work their lives away.

Reliability, proof, and skills aren't of much import if nobody's hiring for the particular version of those things that you have.

This is exactly how you get certain sectors of labor getting rough treatment from the Establishment even though there's a national net labor shortage.

Re: Why America’s Railroads Refuse to Give Their Workers Paid Leave

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the opposite of JIT can also "completely fall apart" with potentially even longer delays, plus loss of money. One thing people don't generally know is that as developed in Japan it's a quality control system. If a jig at a supplier gets out of alignment and parts made with it are out of spec and not noticed until assembly, you're better off with a feedback loop measured in hours instead of months.…

Not being JIT doesn't preclude a supply chain from being fast, though. A fast, but non-JIT supply chain would probably create a lot of excess, but it might be worth it to overcome any bumps in the process.

As p0pcult notes you could not be better named to make such a comment.

You're correct, but that still doesn't address the quality control issue for things like metal bending, unless you add intense $$$ inspection to the process. You still have X amount of inventory of items you haven't yet assembled into cars or whatever for the final test of quality.

OK, for some of the upstream problems you could spend extra money to statistically pick individual items out of a designated stockpile/buffer and assemble them.

But stockpiles work better for stuff that can be tested, like piles of ores and elements or at the complete opposite end chips and electronics that can be tested , and nowadays we have the transistor budgets for self-testing.

Re: Why America’s Railroads Refuse to Give Their Workers Paid Leave

#323

> ”The answer, in short, is “P.S.R.” — or precision-scheduled railroading. P.S.R. is an operational strategy that aims to minimize the ratio between railroads’ operating costs and their revenues through various cost-cutting and (ostensibly) efficiency-increasing measures. The basic idea is to transport more freight using fewer workers and railcars.” That’s a long-winded way of saying: ‘We’d rather make more money tha…

> That’s a long-winded way of saying: ‘We’d rather make more money than care about the health of our employees.’

I wanted to come here to say the same thing, so I'll quote you instead. Greed over all other things, how swell.

Re: Why America’s Railroads Refuse to Give Their Workers Paid Leave

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding of the FIRST big problem with PSR is that it creates trains longer than the system is designed to handle, thus all the sidings that used to allow trains to pass in single tracked areas are unavailable, which increases fragility of the system in general. This makes precision scheduling impossible... what this really is, is let's make all the workers wait (for free!) while we figure out how we can fina…

I was talking with one of these on call workers working for BNSF, and calling it on call doesn't do the terribleness justice. They are 8 hours on, and 8 hours off. The on call call is also 90 minutes ahead of time. So more like 6.5 hours off. Many end up sleeping in the parking lot. There's an alarm that rings every minute on the train - a dead man's switch. Oftentimes this is the only thing keeping them awake. To to…

>Congress backing these companies in any way is absolutely disgusting.

Just to be clear, Congress is not backing them, the Republican Party is.

Re: Why America’s Railroads Refuse to Give Their Workers Paid Leave

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding of the FIRST big problem with PSR is that it creates trains longer than the system is designed to handle, thus all the sidings that used to allow trains to pass in single tracked areas are unavailable, which increases fragility of the system in general. This makes precision scheduling impossible... what this really is, is let's make all the workers wait (for free!) while we figure out how we can fina…

I was talking with one of these on call workers working for BNSF, and calling it on call doesn't do the terribleness justice. They are 8 hours on, and 8 hours off. The on call call is also 90 minutes ahead of time. So more like 6.5 hours off. Many end up sleeping in the parking lot. There's an alarm that rings every minute on the train - a dead man's switch. Oftentimes this is the only thing keeping them awake. To to…

That's why my bro-in-law left being a train engineer. As the new guy, he had no control of his schedule and was constantly on call. He couldn't plan any time off with us or his friends, and it caused too much stress in his life. Something as simple as a consistent schedule would have done wonders for his mental health and allowed him to continue doing something that he had wanted to do for so long.

Re: Why America’s Railroads Refuse to Give Their Workers Paid Leave

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking with one of these on call workers working for BNSF, and calling it on call doesn't do the terribleness justice. They are 8 hours on, and 8 hours off. The on call call is also 90 minutes ahead of time. So more like 6.5 hours off. Many end up sleeping in the parking lot. There's an alarm that rings every minute on the train - a dead man's switch. Oftentimes this is the only thing keeping them awake. To to…

>Congress backing these companies in any way is absolutely disgusting. Just to be clear, Congress is not backing them, the Republican Party is.

Then why did the bill, without paid sick leave, pass both the House and Senate with bipartisan support?

Re: Why America’s Railroads Refuse to Give Their Workers Paid Leave

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But your individual investment has a big risk too - what happens when you turn 80 (90? 100?) and the money runs out? What happens if the market takes a shit the day before you turn 65? Time to start buying Alpo if you're not in a pension. You can buy target date funds to minimize how much you have to manually reallocate between equities and bonds, and you can buy an annuity from an insurance company to guarantee a…

>You can buy target date funds to minimize how much you have to manually reallocate between equities and bonds, and you can buy an annuity from an insurance company to guarantee a certain income. So to minimize the risk of market crash, you have to give up probably 4 or 5 years of decent returns by sitting in bonds instead. And if you want security of annuity you have to pay for that too, plus pay for the insurance m…

> And if you want security of annuity you have to pay for that too, plus pay for the insurance man's profits. I just did a quote to put specific numbers in, to get 80k on my 100k salary for a set period of 20 years, I'd need to pay 1.1 million. That's 11 years of salary needed after taxes. Possibly I could have it after 32 years.

The insurance company selling annuities and defined benefit pension plan sponsor selling annuities are doing the same thing. Although, based on history, the insurance company is subject to better regulation. Insurance company profit margins are ~5% at most, and I am sure DB pension plan management gets paid just the same. And it is all getting invested into the same equities and bonds.

The only difference is if you are a recipient of a taxpayer funded DB pension, then your DB plan sponsor has the power to increase taxes and will be more likely to stick around longer than a private company.

The reason that non taxpayer funded employers moved away from defined benefit pensions is because proper accounting made them too expensive. The old days of counting on explosive inherent growth due to everyone have 3+ kids is over.

The taxpayer funded DB pensions stick around because it remains politically possible to keep kicking the can to future taxpayers. The fact that the rules around taxpayer funded DB pensions are basically non existent and non taxpayer funded DB pensions are strict is all that needs to be said. Why would the same liabilities be allowed to be accounted for in different ways?

> So the actuary says the present value of those costs is 10 billion, maybe the fund has 9 billion, you have a 1 billion dollar liability. This can be gamed. But the actual costs for the next 30 years, based on actuarial assumptions and existing retirees, maybe are 18 billion in nominal dollars.

How can an actuary say present value of liabilities is $10B and also $18B?

Re: Why America’s Railroads Refuse to Give Their Workers Paid Leave

#328
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Total comp by class 1 rail employees is $130k a year [0]. I support their right to strike. It should not be impeded in any form. I also support the right for society to take back all the land they freely gave for use of the railroads, and then to rent it back by imposing a tax against the paycheck of railroad workers equal to whatever gains they made by shutting down freight to the US. [0] https://raillaborfacts.org/…

Note that is "total compensation" and not salary. That means it's factoring in fringe benefits, like health insurance, time off, retirement, relocation benefits, etc. I'm not saying it should be disregarded, just that it's important to note that distinction for comparison's sake. By comparison, there's some sites online touting $400k average total compensation for SV computer scientists. More to your point, why would…

Labor is neither perfectly elastic nor perfectly in-elastic. Therefore it is fallacious to presume it would absolve the shareholders. Taxes on employment, taxed against the employee, actually get split between the employer and employee as the employer competes on the labor market and is forced to repay some of the tax in the form of elevated pre-tax wages. That is the tax is only nominally only on the employee.

Re: Why America’s Railroads Refuse to Give Their Workers Paid Leave

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the scheduling side of things, not the PTO side. For "knowledge workers" as most of HN is, they can just not show up today and then do today's work tomorrow. But something like a railroad ceases to function at some point and that has severe repercussions. Now likely the "railroad" problem could be solved with some work, imagine a nation-wide company that handles railroad staffing emergencies, with on-d…

I'm not sure your staffing problem can solve the whole problem, because there's domain knowledge in how to handle trains in particular sections of track. Speed maximums are probably easy although they do get screwed up in notorious incidents, but there's also things like how to deal with inclines. Compare to knowledge workers like programmers needing to know the code base.

Yeah, you'd have specifics that would have to be worked out, but I bet you could do it (it'd just cost money or time and time is money).

For example, you could run slower trains in general which could help with flattening out domain knowledge.

Or you'd pay for engineers to be trained in some large area, etc.

(This all goes to show that the real underlying problem is running at 99% of capacity with no slack at all available.)

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