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Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

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Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#321

Post by watwut »

kuramitropolis wrote: post #286
NegativeK wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are some craft clubs, but what's the point? Anything you can make pales in comparison to what you can get for a couple of bucks from Amazon. This is unhealthy. > There are a bunch of hobbies but they also seem pointless when you look at a few Youtube videos and see all the popular channels doing exactly what you would like to but a million times better. This is unhealthy. Over a decade ago, I had to accept th…

>The end product isn't what you walk away with; it's the time you spend enjoying doing something. Well, good luck enjoying anything when you're surrounded by environmental feedback that points to its futility. Picking up hobbies so that you have a socially acceptable excuse to interact with to people is ass-backwards.

> Picking up hobbies so that you have a socially acceptable excuse to interact with to people is ass-backwards.

It is and WAS most normal thing in the world. Some people did it subconsciously, them being interested I people lead them to be interested in the same things as those people are interested in. Others did it consciously "everyone seems to gather at pool, let's go to pool". Or just, "I am going to bake a cake to have excuse to give it to people and to get compliments".

Doing things and hobbies to be with others, to impress them was normal human behavior for millenia.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#322

Post by qnt »

cpsns wrote: post #276
qnt wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

mate honestly that sounds like you're cutting off your legs to save your toes. you should take a backpacking holiday in a busy city somewhere (overseas?). If you have fun, try a working-holiday in a new city for a couple weeks. Maybe one you've been thinking of moving to? just try it on. There's no downside.

I've done this before within the country and ultimately just found it extremely stressful. I could never get comfortable in the AirBNB, I constantly felt like I'd just shown up and invaded someone's apartment. I absolutely hate traveling, I just want to live somewhere and for it to become home. You're probably right about the cutting off legs part, though I've simply lost sight of an exit from my current situation. I…

You need to take a break man. Change something. Fair call if you don’t like travel. Just go live anywhere else for a month. Pick a city and pretend it’s home. Rent your place out. If you like it make it 2 months. If it’s shit you’re just back to square 1, no big deal.

All the best

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#323

Post by Dalewyn »

karpierz wrote: post #314
Dalewyn wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ask me, it's because humans fucking suck to be around. Myself and yourself included, along with everyone else. Marrying? Fuck that; pun intended. Friends? I can count the number of true friends I've ever had with one hand. Co-workers and comrades? Ultimately, we're just there to make ends meet. Societal collective (eg: neighborhoods, villages, towns)? Well, we're here talking about this because such things hav…

Why do people suck to be around?

Many reasons, including but not limited to:

* People are two-faced. There is a distinct lack of sincerity in any human interaction compared to interacting with literally anything else. I know a machine is being honest with me, I know a dog or a cat is being honest with me, and I know a human is being dishonest with me.

* The needs and desires of one will not align with those of another. Groups of people must compromise, and compromises leave noone happy. This modern age of people being manipulated into division and strife by the bigger powers-that-be make this even worse.

* The desires of some to wield power leads to awkward and harmful social dynamics. Best to not get involved at all. For individualists, this is perhaps one of the biggest sticking points to socializing. Outside of professional obligations, nobody likes being told what to do.

* People need sufficient time alone to remain mentally healthy, even those who are mega extroverts. The problem is, most people do not understand this and become nuisances in life. Worse is when certain social arrangements (eg: a family) make distancing oneself practically impossible.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#324

Post by watwut »

bergenty wrote: post #184
UnpossibleJim wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can find a community garden, they're way better than the grocery. No offense or anything. Plus you get to meet your local community. I miss mine, now that I'm in the suburbs. You might look into it. It fosters a lot more than just healthy food. It builds neighborhoods, reclaims land and makes friends in the community. They're great.

All of these suggestions are optional. The biggest part of community is it is a forced coexistence. Anything optional takes willpower and most people just will not do consistently.

Optional community is strictly superior to forced one. Cause you can get away if it becomes abusive.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#325

Post by watwut »

throway98752343 wrote: post #238
SoftTalker wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you imagine a friend is? Mostly they are drinking buddies, or buddies. I have not had a friend in over 30 years who was anything more than someone I knew from an activity we both did or a place we both frequented. People (especially men) pretty much stop having "deep" friendships once they are adults.

Men can develop deep friendships with each other as adults, it "just" takes enough mutual interest and flexibility to spend a lot of time together. That is much harder if your time is already spoken for my family, a partner, children, work, hobbies, etc. Think of all those sitcom friends who just show up at each others' houses and hang out. Friendship is fundamentally when two people want to spend time talking with e…

Sitcoms are not real life and never were. They are made up situations designed to make writing funny scenes easy. Sitcoms are not how people actually ever socialized or behaved.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#326

Post by karpierz »

Dalewyn wrote: post #323
karpierz wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people suck to be around?

Many reasons, including but not limited to: * People are two-faced. There is a distinct lack of sincerity in any human interaction compared to interacting with literally anything else. I know a machine is being honest with me, I know a dog or a cat is being honest with me, and I know a human is being dishonest with me. * The needs and desires of one will not align with those of another. Groups of people must compromi…

I think these are all good points, but they don't really apply to people categorically; but rather to some people in some situations.

For example, if half of the group wants pizza, and the other half wants BBQ, a compromise might make everyone happier if they value eating together over eating their preferred meal apart.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#327

Post by MomoXenosaga »

Dalewyn wrote: post #306
UweSchmidt wrote: post #125

The fundamental force behind this is individualism. Every single technological innovation has made it easier for the individual to function better alone. Every societal change has emphasized the individual right over the (real or perceived) benefit of the collective. This trend seems to accelerate and absolutely nothing that is happening in western society even remotely suggests a possible turnaround. You can take ac…

If you ask me, it's because humans fucking suck to be around. Myself and yourself included, along with everyone else. Marrying? Fuck that; pun intended. Friends? I can count the number of true friends I've ever had with one hand. Co-workers and comrades? Ultimately, we're just there to make ends meet. Societal collective (eg: neighborhoods, villages, towns)? Well, we're here talking about this because such things hav…

My mom grew up in a tiny village complete with religious conservatism. She got the hell out of Dodge and moved to the big city when she was 16.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#328

Post by UweSchmidt »

dangus wrote: post #148
UweSchmidt wrote: post #125

The fundamental force behind this is individualism. Every single technological innovation has made it easier for the individual to function better alone. Every societal change has emphasized the individual right over the (real or perceived) benefit of the collective. This trend seems to accelerate and absolutely nothing that is happening in western society even remotely suggests a possible turnaround. You can take ac…

I think this analysis, and the analysis of the opinion article, jumps to too many conclusions. This article says that the trend has started since 2013. In what way has American individualism changed since then? I would say it hasn't. How could American culture shift that much in less than 10 years in this specific span? I don't buy that explanation without more thorough study. American individualism has existed far l…

American individualism has existed for a long time, but trends continue and accelerate. Recent trends to increase individualism:

- Influencers, streamers introduced and established 1-n relationships in society, somewhat replacing more organic 1-1 connections. People start mapping classic relationship-type emotions on what Onlyfans gives them.

- High quality smart phone cameras brought the selfie, the concept of frequently broadcasting a high quality picture of myself, rather than a more natural slice of life moment, picture of a group doing something, relying on another person to be available and willing to take a photo.

- continuing decline of newspapers and other general-audience media, replaced by chose-your-own-bubble media

- online dating becoming widespread, making people more selective, less patient to deal with random encounters; more random rejection, ghosting.

- the pandemic

- homeoffice

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#329

Post by lm28469 »

chii wrote: post #268
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like it's the opposite. This was caused by the destruction of individualism. When people are individuals, you know the name of your butcher and which farm your wheat came from. Now it all comes from the collective and you can't participate in the process without being a drone. Working for Walmart is not the same as operating your own farm stand. You lack autonomy because decisions are made collectively by corp…

> makes everything bland, homogeneous and fungible. which is what makes it cheap and available. If you ran your own farm stand, the goods you produce would be some 2-5x more expensive than a factory farm could've sold for. The modern wealth is predicated on such specialization and scaling. It's why artisanal products are so expensive.

If you base everything on pure monetary value we're absolutely rocking it! If you start talking about quality of life, sustainability, mental health, ethics, &c. it's a whole other story.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#330

Post by UweSchmidt »

dumpsterlid wrote: post #175
dangus wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this analysis, and the analysis of the opinion article, jumps to too many conclusions. This article says that the trend has started since 2013. In what way has American individualism changed since then? I would say it hasn't. How could American culture shift that much in less than 10 years in this specific span? I don't buy that explanation without more thorough study. American individualism has existed far l…

"I think this analysis, and the analysis of the opinion article, jumps to too many conclusions." Definitely, especially because the article seems to avoid the elephant in the room. The US is amidst full on class warfare, the transfer of wealth from the poor and middleclass to the wealthy has been staggering, we never recovered from the 2008 crash, only rich people did. The rich are grinding us to pieces and honestly…

We had class warfare before, and collectivistic action (i.e. unions, strikes) was a logical and (somewhat?) successful solution to improve quality of life. Individualism as the underlying trend prevents those classic solutions and therefore individualistic solutions have to be found: Instead of just collectively asking for x% more salary, society tediously defines and articulates new instances of discrimination (which are ultimately violations on the individual level). Fixing various internal injustices leads to friction and is probably mostly a wealth transfer from different tiers of middle and lower classes. The powers that be therefore applaud and encourage individualism and thus further strenghten this trend.
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