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Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

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Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#321

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

stephen_g wrote: post #274
6510 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just sold some tools for 5 euro each. They need new batteries but company is gone. Makita can just continue to sell their old batteries while their new tools use a standardized form factor. They could also make an old type battery with replaceable cells.

As somebody who has a couple of Makita tools and batteries, it would be really bad if they were hypothetically forced to change. Specifically because not being able to get new tools that use my existing 18V batteries would mean buying a whole set of new batteries, and then it’s so annoying keeping two kinds of batteries that when the old ones wear out, I’d probably instead buy new tools for the new ones. So the old t…

Perhaps not an entirely ideal solution for all scenario, adaptors are available for any of the big brands.

Perhaps part of a battery standardisation push could include making these available at a reasonable price.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#322

Post by rlpb »

Normille wrote: post #70

Cool. The EU does have its [many!] faults. But they have a pretty good track record when it comes to consumer rights and consumer choice. Next up I'd like to see them do the same for the plethora of incompatible cordless power-tool systems out there as they did with insisting all mobile phones standardise on a USB connector.

I don't mind so long as third parties are free to make compatible batteries and tools. Unfortunately there's no reasonable migration path for someone already invested in tools and batteries. Unlike phones that get cycled through in just a few years, I am invested in my tools with the expectation that the majority of my less-used tools will last my lifetime. I'd like to be able to buy replacement compatible batteries for at least that long.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#323

Post by trasz »

johnday wrote: post #198
dahfizz wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This law results in people landing in jail for being habitual criminals. Being poor does not excuse criminal behavior.

On the other hand, it appears that being rich does excuse criminal behavior - that is, if you hire a lot of people and get them to work in an office, and they commit crimes, the company gets fined and you don't go to prison (almost always).

If you hire a lot of people and then steal their wages you don't go to prison either. You can be proven to be a murderer (OJ Simpson) or a child rapist (DuPont, https://www.forbes.com/sites/denizcam/2019/06/14/how-a-du-po...) and you won't get punished if you're wealthy enough. If you are poor, you'll get life sentence for stealing socks. It's not a bug in US judiciary system, it's how the system was designed.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#324

Post by scarface74 »

ThatPlayer wrote: post #304
scarface74 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU insisting on all phones standardizing on the USB connector is evidence of just the opposite and shows the cluelessness and shortsightness of the EU. You will still have phones that come with “standard USB C” cables where some support different power delivery, data speeds (or not support data transfer at all), very few will support video over USB C (which is standardized), etc. So still when the Android user wi…

Because the mandate is not about phones or data. It's about battery powered devices and charging. I don't need data in the cable for my wireless earbuds, or my battery pack. My toothbrush or my beard trimmer. So that hypothetical USB C cable doesn't have to be thrown away, it can still be used for other devices. Which is why standardization is good.

So grab a random “standard” USB C cable. What are the chances that it will charge my MacBook Pro 16 inch that does support “standard” USB C?

Will that “standard” USB C cable that comes with my Beats Flex headphones charge my iPhone 12 Pro Max? My Anker battery?

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#325

Post by ThatPlayer »

scarface74 wrote: post #324
ThatPlayer wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the mandate is not about phones or data. It's about battery powered devices and charging. I don't need data in the cable for my wireless earbuds, or my battery pack. My toothbrush or my beard trimmer. So that hypothetical USB C cable doesn't have to be thrown away, it can still be used for other devices. Which is why standardization is good.

So grab a random “standard” USB C cable. What are the chances that it will charge my MacBook Pro 16 inch that does support “standard” USB C? Will that “standard” USB C cable that comes with my Beats Flex headphones charge my iPhone 12 Pro Max? My Anker battery?

Maybe not, but what's the alternative? Should we give up because of incompatibilities and go back to proprietary cables for everyone? Do we move back to DC jacks that offer no voltage negotiation so you can blow up your 5V battery pack with a 24V input?

You're letting perfect be the enemy of good here.

Also I think the ideal endgame is that your Beats Flex headphones don't come with cables at all because of standardization. Look at Apple (and most phone manufacturers) no longer packaging chargers.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#326

Post by colinmhayes »

p-e-w wrote: post #22
drexlspivey wrote: post #4

That’s 1.45% of their annual revenue or 5.2% of their annual net profit.

Which is essentially nothing. Imagine an individual, caught committing an illegal act of this magnitude for the third time , being fined 1.45% of their annual pre-tax salary, with no other consequences. Speeding tickets are costlier than this in many jurisdictions.

I don't care how much money you have or make. $4 billion can buy an enormous amount of stuff, it is in no way essentially nothing.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#327

Post by kube-system »

wvenable wrote: post #291
kube-system wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anticompetitive practices are stopping them. That’s the point of these fines. Google controls the predominant non-Chinese marketplace for apps that are compatible with android-based operating systems, and they use it as a hostage to force other device manufacturers to arbitrarily force other google products upon their uses, for the purpose of unfairly expanding their market dominance.

Isn't that a whole other level though? Google is being asked to stop forcing distribution of their software so other Android software can compete. Either way, you're still going to have 2 operating systems: Android and iOS.

It’s a bit of a self reinforcing loop, though. Top apps are all on Google Play because everyone using Android (on this side of the GFW) is all but forced to stay in Google’s ecosystem.

The diversity of *nix based OSes are a testament to what could happen in the absence of monopolistic powers.

If it weren’t for Google’s stranglehold, Android probably would already be #2 to a fork made by Samsung.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#329

Post by ignaloidas »

scarface74 wrote: post #324
ThatPlayer wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the mandate is not about phones or data. It's about battery powered devices and charging. I don't need data in the cable for my wireless earbuds, or my battery pack. My toothbrush or my beard trimmer. So that hypothetical USB C cable doesn't have to be thrown away, it can still be used for other devices. Which is why standardization is good.

So grab a random “standard” USB C cable. What are the chances that it will charge my MacBook Pro 16 inch that does support “standard” USB C? Will that “standard” USB C cable that comes with my Beats Flex headphones charge my iPhone 12 Pro Max? My Anker battery?

> What are the chances that it will charge my MacBook Pro 16 inch that does support “standard” USB C?

Most likely yes, unless it's a non-compliant cable in the first place, and possibly at a reduced speed (60W max).

>Will that “standard” USB C cable that comes with my Beats Flex headphones charge my iPhone 12 Pro Max? My Anker battery?

Ignoring that iPhones don't have USB C, yes to both at the fastest charge rate available.

Only times where you have to worry about a cable with USB-C when charging is if charging power exceeds 60W or the cable is optical. Above 60W you need marked cables, some go up to 100W, and some (will, not seen in the wild yet) go up to 240W. There are plans to deprecate the 100W tier as well.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#330

Post by dangjc »

antonymy wrote: post #292
babelfish wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, while the fines might make operating in the EU unprofitable, they could just...follow EU regulations...and remain profitable, albeit at a likely lower margin

That's probably the goal, but Google is probably going to have anxiety about getting fined again if their compliance is not enough. Except in this case, the fines are so steep that it'd be very hard to over-spend on compliance. But it's just a race to the bottom in any case, Google only stands to make less and less money in the EU from now on.

It’s not walking on egg shells. It’s very clear directions to avoid anti competitive behavior. Maybe it’s harder without a moral compass telling them to not be evil.
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