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It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

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Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#321

Post by throwaway290 »

RUN12 wrote: post #229
causalmodels wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you name a single moderation system that operates on this scale that will not automatically ban someone for getting mass reported? This is a fairly well known phenomenon.

That's obviously not what's happening here though. I have plenty of adult friends who go on public and private servers and actively trash talk during games and have never been banned. And none of their friends have been banned. A small group of 10 year-old children aren't having a coordinated attack of hundreds to thousands of reports against them repeatedly over many months. Not to mention tacking on the requirement…

Imagine you buy a Monopoly, D&D or MtG set. You don't have room to play it at home so your child goes to a game cafe to play it with friends. A sex offender is trying to cozy up to them. Who would you blame for that, Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast? Is allowing them to confiscate a game set (or cripple it so it can't be played with other people) the right solution?

As a side effect, if you or your child are a bit inconsiderate during a tense moment of the game and someone gets mad back, with a press of the button they can block you from ever playing by reporting select words to game publisher. You will not be entitled to refund. Would you say that if this was not abused in a couple of months then it's definitely OK and we shouldn't worry about it?

Minecraft was sold as a game set. There are paid official places you can go play it now, but buying the game set does not require you to use them. Do not mistake it with Roblox, that one is both a game cafe and a game set.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#322

Post by oynqr »

wsc981 wrote: post #171
babypuncher wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first I found it frustrtating, but I've grown to really appreciate Nintendo's approach to this problem. Their multiplayer games (like Splatoon) have no in-game chat or VOIP. It definitely makes it harder to make friends in the games, but it also completely eliminates any and all potential for toxicity and other miscreant behavior. As a result, I'd have no problem letting my hypothetical children play these games o…

In League of Legends you can disable chat and still kinda strategize with your team using minimap pings. You can still communicate, but limited to bare essentials.

Are pings rate limited?

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#323

Post by oynqr »

watwut wrote: post #282
Dylan16807 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For servers that kids are supposed to be on, sure. Not all servers.

Doxxing and raids on individuals, targeted sexual harassments, there are all kinds of online actions we keep away from adult oriented internet services too.

Account bans are not sufficient to prevent that. Never have been.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#325

Post by boredpudding »

causalmodels wrote: post #218
RUN12 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet far less naive than believing a group of 10 year-olds are being repeatedly banned for no reason with their chat off, instead of the obvious that when parents aren't looking they're being abusive to others in chat. Reminds me of the classic: > No, I wasn't looking at dirty websites, it was a virus!

Can you name a single moderation system that operates on this scale that will not automatically ban someone for getting mass reported? This is a fairly well known phenomenon.

In this case, the reports need to include messages by the person who is being reported. This is verified with private/public keys.

To be mass reported, you need to be on a server with all the people who want to report you.

Honestly, Mojang built this system well, and seeing Hacker News full of assumptions is really disappointing.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#326

Post by oynqr »

watwut wrote: post #292
orsond wrote: post #88

Hi, orsond from the fifth column here. The Fifth Column is a Minecraft hacking and griefing group. We created Project Copenhiemer which is a Minecraft server scanning tool. Copenhiemer scans the internet every 20 minutes for minecraft servers, logs players, server versions, mods and more. Originally we had created it to find players and grief their server worlds, highlighting how much information about players is lea…

> For example, children should only be able to join under 18's Mojang hosted servers (realms) where conduct can be heavily monitored and 18+ players join multiplayer servers where children cannot play. Underappreciated aspect is that quite a lot, most actually, 18+ don't like unmoderated spaces either.

They are free to play on the moderated servers then.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#327

Post by asddubs »

hooby wrote: post #242

Microsoft lost my copy of the game during the account transfer. Despite me having an account, that had both re-downloaded the game and played it just a few weeks earlier, had a custom character skin stored in it, and other stuff - they claimed I didn't actually ever own Minecraft, and demanded I provide proof of purchase. I provided as much as I could - including security questions+answers (which I had stored in my K…

if you use the polymc launcher you can still play offline with a mojang login without transferring your account.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#328

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

I knew Minecraft was effectively dead the moment Microsoft sank their teeth into it, and I've barely touched the game since. They did their best to cut out Linux support. All hope of it being open sourced is lost, so expect it to go into disrepair the moment it stops making them money.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#329

Post by Heyso »

kypro wrote: post #155

I think this is probably an autistic take on this, but I think we care way to much about exposing kids to mean words and mean people. Again, perhaps an autistic take, but being bullied (badly) as a kid was easily the best thing that ever happened to me in terms of mental resilience. Imagine we got into an argument and I got angry and called you a "smelly poo poo", you'd probably just laugh because despite what I'm sa…

I agree with most of it. Insult are forbidden/taboo, that's also why kids use and abuse them when they can (like in a game).

It just crossed my mind : we should be teaching kids how to handle insults and toxicity in life. Non-violent communication principles, and "don't take things personnaly" from the four agreements of Don Miguel Ruiz.

It is likely that the toxicity kids put into game is to help themselves learn how to handle toxicity/insults in life. Can I hurt somebody with words and actions (hello griefing) ? How much ? Can he retaliate ? Do I gain or lose something by being a dick (or victim) ?

Think about it, testing that out in real life is much more dangereous and costly. At worse, in game you may get banned.

My point is that I suspect online toxicity to be a ground for learning some valuables lessons. If we want to reduces online toxicity, we should be providing theses valuable lessons elsewhere (in school for example).

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#330

Post by vintermann »

watwut wrote: post #316
vintermann wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But the kids getting banned may not be the kids doing the messing and trolling on the side.

The most plausible scenario is that they are. It is not like it would be difficult or required special knowledge to open minecraft and play with the chat on. 10 years old are fully capable of playing without chat with one friends group and with chat an hour later.

A 10 year old can easily outsmart a cororation's bureaucratic, mostly automated chat reporting system. And once they have, yeah, fake reports will probably outnumber the real ones.
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