Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#321

Post by jeffwask » Mon, Aug 08, 2022, 1:41 PM UTC

jupp0r wrote: post #288

jeffwask wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me you haven't used Windows in a decade without telling me you haven't used Windows in a decade

Until 4 months ago, I was leading a team responsible for a cross platform desktop app with 20 million daily users, most of them on Windows. I used Windows daily and found/reported numerous bugs to Microsoft. I would never have made it my primary development environment, but I had some people on my team who liked it for that. I think your uninformed ad hominem attacks are really impolite by the way.

Speaking of ad hominim's I am confused. Have you "I’ve rarely seen people being very enthusiastic Windows users btw" or "had some people on my team who liked it for that."

From my perspective Windows in 2022...

- I can seamlessly develop in Linux on Windows using WSL2 - I can manage my machine with a package manager (winget) - I can run Linux Native GUI application (wslg win 11) - I get Microsoft's epic backwards compatability - I get guaranteed comparability with 99% of the software and hardware available today - I get a suite of expandable back office tools for managing my fleet

Honestly, there are days I spending in visual studio code and windows terminal where it doesn't even feel like I'm on Windows. I can get the best of both environments out of the box.

...but tell me again how there is nothing to be enthusiastic about windows.

Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#322

Post by koffiezet » Mon, Aug 08, 2022, 2:44 PM UTC

bzxcvbn wrote: post #10

Seems weird to harp on the cost of a windows license when they're buying Mac OS licenses instead (although hidden in the device's prie).

While I think not allowing windows is a silly policy, Apple laptops still sell for a serious premium after 3 or 4 years of use. I've worked for companies where this was the sole reason for Mac being the default laptop you got. If you wanted/needed anything else, you had to specifically ask for it.

Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#323

Post by horsawlarway » Mon, Aug 08, 2022, 6:59 PM UTC

chrisfosterelli wrote: post #77

horsawlarway wrote: post #9

I'm no fan of Windows myself, but I find this a fairly bad policy. If nothing else - what's not used is not tested. And if you expect any real population of users to be using Windows machines with your products, you should have developers/PMs/QA/support interacting with your products using Windows machines. I see this as: We're saving a bit of money and making ITs life easier, and in exchange users will get a worse p…

Do you also expect that mobile devs do all their primary computing from their phone?

I certainly expect them to be driving the phone they are developing for - in the case where a single team is doing both iOS and Android - yes, I expect them to be using both consistently (and I argue for issuing both at companies where I've led mobile teams).

I've been down the whole "we'll just test it in a vm" path, and it works... if by works you mean you get a happy path test every once in a while, and devs make sure the automated tests pass.

It doesn't instill the same level of care and attention that daily use gives. Dog-fooding is not a joke. It's genuinely hard to make a decent UI for a platform if you're not using that UI often, and in real situations.

I've literally gone as far as making devs switch device personas over time on my mobile teams. They get an assigned device from our test pool for the sprint from a list like

- High end stock android device with large screen

- High end stock android device with small screen

- High end Samsung ROM device with large screen

- High end Samsung ROM device with small screen

- Mid tier stock android device with large screen

- Mid tier stock android device with small screen

- Mid tier Samsung ROM device with large screen

etc... down to the devices no dev wants at all, like

- Amazon Kindle Fire default

- Amazon Kindle Fire kids

and they do all their dev/testing/use on it.

It works fucking wonders in suddenly making them care about things that were previously just "meh" problems. Two weeks stewing in their own problems on a device they were ignoring is one hell of an incentive.

Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#324

Post by jupp0r » Mon, Aug 08, 2022, 7:49 PM UTC

jeffwask wrote: post #321

jupp0r wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until 4 months ago, I was leading a team responsible for a cross platform desktop app with 20 million daily users, most of them on Windows. I used Windows daily and found/reported numerous bugs to Microsoft. I would never have made it my primary development environment, but I had some people on my team who liked it for that. I think your uninformed ad hominem attacks are really impolite by the way.

Speaking of ad hominim's I am confused. Have you "I’ve rarely seen people being very enthusiastic Windows users btw" or "had some people on my team who liked it for that." From my perspective Windows in 2022... - I can seamlessly develop in Linux on Windows using WSL2 - I can manage my machine with a package manager (winget) - I can run Linux Native GUI application (wslg win 11) - I get Microsoft's epic backwards com…

Obviously there's a spectrum and my personal experience is not representative for the industry as a whole. From the people I've worked with in 2 decades, maybe 2% choose Windows over Unix when given the choice, even when most customers were using Windows. At my current job, I literally know nobody using Windows (>$1B software company with high 3 digit or low 4 digit number of engineers). Not sure why anybody thinks a Windows only policy would be a great idea in this labor market.