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Helium has revenues of $6.5k/month after $365M investment from A16Z

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Re: Helium has revenues of $6.5k/month after $365M investment from A16Z

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I care about these things and left crypto over a decade ago.

By that timeline, you were in during 2009 - 2011. Bitcoin was developing. Bitcoin blockchain then was not privacy enhancing. What were you involved in? And you missed a giant price run.

> And you missed a giant price run.

Thank you Captain Hindsight.

Re: Helium has revenues of $6.5k/month after $365M investment from A16Z

#322
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is not a viable business (eg We work) the IPO will fail and the VCs would be left holding the bag. Businesses make money from customers. Ponzis shuffle around capital from late investors to early investors

Uber

Uber makes revenue from customers. Not all investments are good investments but the fact remains that businesses have non-investor participants from which the goal is, in the full course of time, to extract profits. While specific equities may be bad investments, equities in aggregate are positive-sum because investors aim to extract profit from non-investor participants. They may fail! But that doesn't change the goal.

This is not the same as a cryptocurrency which relies solely on later investors to create returns for earlier investors. There are no non-investor participants from which profits can be derived, period. Cryptocurrencies are in aggregate either zero-sum (best case, PoS) or massively negative-sum (worst case, PoW, especially Bitcoin).

This represents a pretty fundamental misunderstanding of, well, investing.

Re: Helium has revenues of $6.5k/month after $365M investment from A16Z

#323
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber

Uber makes revenue from customers. Not all investments are good investments but the fact remains that businesses have non-investor participants from which the goal is, in the full course of time, to extract profits. While specific equities may be bad investments, equities in aggregate are positive-sum because investors aim to extract profit from non-investor participants. They may fail! But that doesn't change the go…

Even PoS is negative sum; developing and hosting nodes isn't free, to say nothing of human capital wasted on attention diverted toward a rube goldberg ponzi lottery in any capacity, right down to this hastily composed reply to your post.

Re: Helium has revenues of $6.5k/month after $365M investment from A16Z

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber makes revenue from customers. Not all investments are good investments but the fact remains that businesses have non-investor participants from which the goal is, in the full course of time, to extract profits. While specific equities may be bad investments, equities in aggregate are positive-sum because investors aim to extract profit from non-investor participants. They may fail! But that doesn't change the go…

Even PoS is negative sum; developing and hosting nodes isn't free, to say nothing of human capital wasted on attention diverted toward a rube goldberg ponzi lottery in any capacity, right down to this hastily composed reply to your post.

[deleted]

Re: Helium has revenues of $6.5k/month after $365M investment from A16Z

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to be blunt, these have nothing to do with Wi-Fi hotspots, they don't have the same use cases, they don't use the same protocol and it's as far removed from Xfinity and Comcast as possible.

I don’t mind the bluntness but I think my analogy threw you off. When Helium says things like: “The Helium Hotspot is a small hardware device that creates a large wireless network for devices that use Helium's network. Think of it like a Wi-Fi router, but for devices sending small amounts of data over long ranges.” Is the $6k/month revenue from sending data through a “Helium Hotspot” or something else?

Yes, the $6K/month is for paying people for data transfer through their networks, so through a Helium Hotspot. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Re: Helium has revenues of $6.5k/month after $365M investment from A16Z

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I turned 10k into 300k without doing any of the above in 6 months. You need to fight your biases.

Crypto is zero sum. For you to get 300k someone else got a loss of 300k.

Is it zero sum though? Finance in general isn't - it allows people to invest and manage risk.

If I bought a bitcoin at $100 and sold it at $1,000 - who lost money trading with me? The person I bought it from because they could have kept it and made the money I made? No - they were happy to realise their own returns. The person I sold it to? Assuming they still have it, they hold something valued substantially above $1,000 and are quite happy.

The only way for this to be zero sum is if bitcoin has zero value. But bitcoin has at least some utility so now the market is just arguing over how much - and that value changes as bitcoin becomes more accepted / useful.

Re: Helium has revenues of $6.5k/month after $365M investment from A16Z

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Banking the unbanked I first heard this line eight years ago and so far this hasn't happened. If you are unbanked, it's because you have little money, and you want to put it into something stable and something where you are protected - in other words, the exact opposite of cryptocurrencies. > protection against hyperinflation, In 2022, cryptocurrencies have experienced over 100% inflation. Your one bitcoin today wi…

> Cryptocurrencies are almost as old as the smartphone. You can't keep promising something useful and never delivering, forever. I’m generally pretty bearish on crypto and the current state of web3, so I’m not here to evangelize for it. But comparing crypto to a smartphone is arbitrary, and the nature of one does not help us understand the acceptable timeframe for development of the other. When I see the “it’s existe…

> What is a reasonable amount of time for an emerging technology like this to develop?

However much it needs to prove itself, I guess; cryptocurrencies have not proven themselves, I want to add 'yet', but they've had over a decade now and they're STILL suffering from extremely high value variability, energy costs, and scams / crime. That's not a basis to keep building on. And every attempt at moving away from those negatives has failed or ended up being a scam itself.

Re: Helium has revenues of $6.5k/month after $365M investment from A16Z

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Banking the unbanked I first heard this line eight years ago and so far this hasn't happened. If you are unbanked, it's because you have little money, and you want to put it into something stable and something where you are protected - in other words, the exact opposite of cryptocurrencies. > protection against hyperinflation, In 2022, cryptocurrencies have experienced over 100% inflation. Your one bitcoin today wi…

>>protection against hyperinflation, >In 2022, cryptocurrencies have experienced over 100% inflation. To be fair, my ignorant self assumed that for much of its timeline, Crypto fought hyperinflation by hyperdeflation. It is intentional design point of most Crypto to increase its value. This deflationary philosophy I assume goes immediately counter pretence of Crypto as currency - if my 1 token will be worth a signifi…

Exactly; I don't understand why people are still trying to defend cryptoCURRENCY as a currency.

I mean in theory Tether and other stablecoins try to fulfill that promise, but these are dodgy in their own rights - and they have no protections either, as the SafeMoon thing from a while back showed.

Re: Helium has revenues of $6.5k/month after $365M investment from A16Z

#329
post #99

I looked into getting a Helium hotspot, but when I looked at my ISP‘s terms of service, the Helium use case is explicitly forbidden (I use Frontier Internet in Florida.) If you’re not familiar with it, what a Helium hotspot does is allow compatible IOT devices to share your Internet connection. I suspect that allowing random third parties to use your Internet connection it’s explicitly forbidden by the terms of servi…

> I suspect that allowing random third parties to use your Internet connection it’s explicitly forbidden by the terms of service of most ISPs I suspect that most people don't read the terms of service.

I mean there's a lot of innovation and good things happening from people intentionally breaking these things - "OK, sue me", to test these terms.

Except that an ISP will just suspend your account, and if you object they'll be the ones that go "OK, sue me".

Re: Helium has revenues of $6.5k/month after $365M investment from A16Z

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correction: for me to get 300k, many people had to aggregate 300k of losses across many different projects. You make it sound like the market is two participants - me and the guy I took 300k from. In reality, the market is broad as well as deep. You can lose $10 on one project, make $20 on another, and come out with $10 profit overall. Someone else can reverse that trade and come out with $10 profit as well.

Mathematician here - one who has been paid to write successful option models for Wall Street, for example. Your argument is wildly wrong because you cannot add negative numbers and make a positive. You simply invent random transactions to come up with a desired outcome, and refuse to look at the big picture. The whole cryptomarket is a negative sum game, because of the costs of electricity, bandwidth and personnel. F…

Here's a simple model:

A market of one token that was initially worth nothing 1 year ago but the market now sees has value - let's say $100 - because it has some genuine utility - various companies have said they will accept it as payment for a variety of different products.

If you add all the cashflows for trading on this token over the year, $100 has been made. In fact the only way for these cashflows to sum to zero is for the token to be worth zero.

Where did that value come from? It came from the increased utility of the token.

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