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Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

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Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've heard people jokingly say, "One side collects guns and the other collects mental disorders." > That's obviously an unfair shot but there's some truth to it. No truth to it at all really. I'm pretty much a full-on socialist and I own firearms. In fact, I'm not sure I know anyone who doesn't own a firearm. There are more firearms in the US than there are people, so what kind of fool honestly believes they are al…

> so what kind of fool honestly believes they are all in the hands of less than one half of the population Seeing as how only 30% of Americans own guns [0], all the guns are literally in the hands of less than one half. So it’s not foolish to believe that. But it’s true whether I believe it or not. [0] https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/the-dem...

Even that source has half as many democrat-identifying people owning firearms as republican-identifying people, which is very far from "one side collects all the guns".

But yes it would appear that "less than half the population" is actually correct.

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#322
post #82

People just need to get off social media for 6 months, and stop watching the news - and they'll be just fine.

I agree detoxing from news is great, but I think that's easier to do when your daughter isnt raped and unable to get an abortion, your gay son can't marry his love and thus have equal protection under the law, and when you aren't one broken leg or week out of work away from bankruptcy. That said, unless someone is planning to do more than vote (volunteer, run for office, etc) then keeping up with news more than weekl…

Very funny! I regret the group missed your satiric post and is now voting you into oblivion (where this entire topic belongs!8-))

Your last sentence is priceless!

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest issue, IMHO, is the fact the senate holds all this power, yet Vermont and Texas have the same level of representation in it. The House, for all it's flaws in being capped so low, at least has the advantage of being more representative of the population, having a clearer majority, and being large enough to support factions within the parties.

How would Vermont have any say in political affairs if their political power was limited purely by their population?! Its clear why there is a Senate and a House: it was a good idea then and it remains a good idea for the USA. And here's a big "Howdy!" from Texas to all of you in the great state of Vermont!

Citizens of Vermont would have just as much power as every other citizen… I understand that the founding fathers we’re forced into a system that empowers small states to the detriment of large wrongs. It was wrong then, just as it’s wrong now.

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#324
I don't want there to be one but I am at least 65% certain there will be a civil war between the states in 5ish years to the point it is affecting my future plans. IMO, it will come down to state national guards supporting a secesion or rebellion against the federal government. The packing of the supreme court and all levels of state and federal judges is a strategic move by an ethnonationlist movement in America. Look at a picture of republicans vs democrats in congress, it speaks volumes.

The white supremacist "race war" thing is bullshit. The civil war I see coming is a deep division between mostly rural white americans and everyone else. There are things these people say in public and things they say in private. They have been brainwashed by the likes of steve bannon who believe a pure white and euro centric nation must be established.

A lot of their supporters only support them because they worked hard to pack courts and get rid of abortion, gay marriage and other things. These are "single issue voters".

And on the left, based on what I hear on CNN/MSNBC and the sentiment on sites like reddit and even a little bit on HN, the disconnect from reality couldn't be any worse. What I am saying is, sure the issues leftwingers care about are important but I am worried about is concentration camps and states firing nukes at each other.

Let's look at religion for example, leftwingers are incredibly bigoted. Replace religion with race in the same context and you will see what I mean (not that the two are comparable but in America they are both protected groups, where religion is the second right of the people). The things people ask and answer about Christianity could not be more wrong, almost reads like made up fiction to me, this is important because of how important religion is to the other side. They literally believe relgion has no place in government, I mean sure religious orgs have no place in government but individuals have every right to represent the beliefs of their electorate religious or not.

Look at TV, netflix, popular social media. They are all progressive friendly. They make the other side feel extremely excluded. And it was things like this russia and white supremacists have been exploiting.

I expect them to slowly make things like interracial marriage, EEO, EPA regulations,etc... a states issue. And then democrats will try to reverse it but the states will refuse to comply and order their national guards to resist that order. Now, if cops have been inflitrated by white supremacists to the point where they maim white journalists in broad daylight on purpose at a blm protest and get away with it, how much of southern states' national guards (which have little diversity) do you think have been infiltrated?

Even if you don't buy anything I said until this point, the sentiment and propaganda on the right is "white christian purity" and on the left is "anything but straight-white-male or Christian" if this was a marriage it would end in a divorce due to "irreconcilable differences".

I don't even vote because I disagree with both sides strongly (I am not a centrist). But it comes down to Republicans accepting black and latino people are here to stay and "dillute" the "white race" by way of marriage (although "pure" "white" people will never be replaced by this, they will just be less percent of the population) and democrats need to accept you can't progress and change everything and exclude everyone who disagrees and use racial divisions for votes.

Last take: The amount of people that believe joe biden is not the president of america is enough to start a civil war in america. The last civil war was between white americans over slavery, the demographics have changed. Now it will be an even deeper divide. To the majority it will feel like a large amount of crazy people took over a few state governments and started an insurrection but like a wildifire it will spread.

I hope I am completely wrong on this but this is whay the right wing wants. Both sides think they are right and both sides are wrong. There couldn't be a better time for either party to risk losing am election cycle or two by splitting (e.g.: progressives splinter off from democrats or social conservatives split from GOP).

Really last take: some states splitting is a good idea. Split texas in four, washington,oregon,vermont, colorado and florida in two and california in 3 and then admit Puerto Rico, Guam+American Samoa+USVI (three as one state),DC as states. Which gives each party close to equal additional states but also solves a lot of gridlocked issues and allows more swing states.

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#325

A full-blown civil war, circa 1800s? Probably not, although a growing number of fascist types are fantasizing about it and planning for it. More frequent and extreme episodes of violent civil unrest? Yes. I think it's going to get worse. https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2022/03/08/they-are-...

I think there will be civil unrest until the MAGA movement dies off as their demagogue diminishes over time.

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#326

A full-blown civil war, circa 1800s? Probably not, although a growing number of fascist types are fantasizing about it and planning for it. More frequent and extreme episodes of violent civil unrest? Yes. I think it's going to get worse. https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2022/03/08/they-are-...

See that's an important thing people don't realize about a new civil war. In the civil war you had various clearly defined government apparatuses that chose to withdraw themselves from the union to form a new nation state. This time however it isn't a certain group of geographic area it is divided along urban vs rural lines. If a "civil war" were to come again it is much more likely that we'll see something more alon…

It will be more like Yugoslavia. It will start as you said but full on war between states will be inevitable aftee that

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#327
The U.S. Constitution badly needs to be updated. It needs to spell out more clearly the role of the Supreme Court and how many justices it should have. It needs to more clearly state the manner in which the Senate gives advice and consent regarding appointees by the President and what should happen if the Senate refuses to vote on appointees. It needs to reform apportionment of Representatives. One Representative from California has a lot more constituents than the one from North Dakota. The list goes on.

There is a power imbalance in the country and that imbalance can’t last long without some sort of backlash.

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#328
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The voting system in the US (FPTP) is fundamentally unfair. Combine with post-red-map gerrymandering, it is becoming obvious even to the people "on the wings" that our election system fundamentally disenfranchises large swathes of the population. As a short hand, think "Democrats and Independents in red states" and "Republicans and Independants in blue states". Being disenfranchised sucks . The system is designed to…

> prevent you from having any ability to even change the system But the best solution to that is to just invert the system so that the federal government has the least impact, the states the second least, and the local municipalities the most. Which was what the last civil war was fought over.

This is the reason California has a housing crisis. Hyper local power just leads to people in desirable areas voting themselves a handout at the expense of people who move there.

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which side has 95%+ of the guns and land?

If you think that Democrats don't own guns, you'd be dangerously mistaken. As for owning most of the land, shrug. Who cares. In a war, property deeds aren't worth the paper they're written on.

It's not about property rights--it's about control of land and resources. Look at this map and tell me how you defend the blue areas against the red ones:

https://brilliantmaps.com/2020-county-election-map/

A civil war isn't "every Republican vs. every Democrat." It'd be rural areas vs. urban ones, and it wouldn't really be a fight. One side has substantially less land, guns, and fighters than the other. It'd be unwinnable.

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which side has 95%+ of the guns and land?

There are 120% the number of guns in the US as there are people. Only a great fool would believe they are all in the hands of a group that can't even muster up a popular vote win in a presidential election.

Not all. But the vast majority. And they're the ones that have experience using them, too.
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