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HP Dev One Laptop with Pop_OS

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Re: HP Dev One Laptop with Pop_OS

#321

Post by scrlk »

HenryMulligan wrote: post #164
scrlk wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a ZBook? Those have always had the middle mouse button (probably for people who use CAD etc). EliteBook trackpoints never had a middle button.

"EliteBook trackpoints never had a middle button." That is not correct. My old HP EliteBook 8560W had not one but two sets of three mouse buttons. See the first image at this article: https://notebooks.com/2011/04/12/hp-elitebook-8560w-details-...

I should have been clearer. HP's mainstream business laptops never had the middle mouse button whilst their workstation laptops (such as your 8560W) have always had them.

Re: HP Dev One Laptop with Pop_OS

#322

Post by freeAgent »

messe wrote: post #19
Rebelgecko wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't used Pop!_OS so maybe this isn't a valid concern, but some Linux distros have a hard time with DPI scaling, especially by non-integer amounts... So you could end up with an unfortunate situation where a 1440p screen is too small to read at 1x scaling but too clunky to use at 2x

I believe Pop!_OS is based on GNOME, which handles fractional scaling in the same way as macOS, by rendering the UI at 2x and then scaling down. In my experience with macOS, this is good enough for ~95% of cases (I've run into issues with image editing and pixel art). It hurts battery life, but... this is a developer laptop: make it a bit thicker, and give it as much battery as you legally can. EDIT: If you're going…

Not downvoting, but it’s problematic on Linux when you hook up a second display at different scaling/resolution. Whenever I’m in Linux in my home office, I regret having 4K monitors that require scaling to be readable.

Re: HP Dev One Laptop with Pop_OS

#323

Post by HenryMulligan »

scrlk wrote: post #321
HenryMulligan wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"EliteBook trackpoints never had a middle button." That is not correct. My old HP EliteBook 8560W had not one but two sets of three mouse buttons. See the first image at this article: https://notebooks.com/2011/04/12/hp-elitebook-8560w-details-...

I should have been clearer. HP's mainstream business laptops never had the middle mouse button whilst their workstation laptops (such as your 8560W) have always had them.

Okay, fair. Thank you for clarifying.

Re: HP Dev One Laptop with Pop_OS

#325

Post by mindcrime »

flatiron wrote: post #308
mindcrime wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a new System 76 machine about this time last year, and splurged (by my standards) on 64GB of RAM. BEST. DECISION. EVAAAR. as far as I'm concerned. For probably the first time in my life, I feel like I can do basically whatever I want and not have to worry about RAM. Have 8 Firefox windows with 200 tabs open, 3 or 4 Eclipse instances, and a few server apps running, and want to launch a bunch of VM's with Vagr…

It took me a week but think about switching to jetbrains. So far I’ve had 0 people regret my pressuring to get off eclipse. My old workplace didn’t blink about the expense and my new job has it as the standard kit. Just a thought even though it is a pain in the tush in the beginning.

I've tried it. And TBH, I don't get all the hype. It was usable, but I didn't see anywhere near enough appeal to justify investing the time/energy to learn Jetbrains as well as I've learned Eclipse over the years. And for its warts, Eclipse pretty much "just works" at this point, especially given that I have suitable hardware for it now. I think a lot of my issues with Eclipse in the past where pretty directly attributable to running on under-powered hardware.

Re: HP Dev One Laptop with Pop_OS

#326

Post by usr1106 »

mindcrime wrote: post #285
usr1106 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who would be able to productively use 200 open browser tabs? Seems like a strange argument to waste even more resources on a more and more ruined planet.

If you don't like hundreds of browser tabs, don't open hundreds of browser tabs. I'll keep my own counsel on how I manage my tabs.

If you ruin the planet it's not your private business anymore.

Re: HP Dev One Laptop with Pop_OS

#327

Post by usr1106 »

darthrupert wrote: post #290
usr1106 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1 GB would require some serious optimization if you want to do some work. But I have a 2 GB machine running Xubuntu without modifications and it is quite usable for some development work (It was bought as a school laptop years ago. You could not use it in school anymore because their stuff requires 4 GB nowadays, but I sometimes still use it just for fun.) I don't think switching from Xfce to sway saves you a whole G…

My first Linux machine ran on 8MB RAM. Ok, could be that some modern software would not run well on such a thing any more and a modern web browser is unthinkable.

When I studied computer science the VAX-750 had 4 MB and 15 students could compile at the same time from each their terminal. Swapping got a bit annoying under those conditions, but in the evening when a couple of them had gone home it started to run smoothly.

I remember phones from 20 years ago using something like 150 kB, admittedly they had no real operating system, just a simple task scheduler. Probably color display required a bit more already.

Re: HP Dev One Laptop with Pop_OS

#328

Post by Lio »

lrvick wrote: post #318
Lio wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s true but if integration means that it’s very rare for anything to go wrong within the product’s lifetime that may not matter and in fact be a net win. I’ve never had anything break on a laptop[1] I’ve owned regardless of brand since 2005. I can’t be that atypical. 1. Apart from maybe the wifi on my XPS13 which I can just about live with by turning wifi on and off.

Meanwhile I have a stack of 6-7 old broken laptops that are unlikely to be repairable.

What's broken on them and are they made with discrete components vs highly integrated ones?

If they are made with discrete components and still can't be repaired then you'd loose nothing by going to a higher level of integration.

Re: HP Dev One Laptop with Pop_OS

#329

Post by ulkesh »

happymellon wrote: post #232
ulkesh wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me introduce you to my friend Java.

Java sets upper memory limits, so that shouldn't be an issue.

I was replying to the whole 8GB is enough for typical development. Java is an extremely popular language to develop in and the IDEs alone eat up 2-4GB on their own.

By default a Java app will set its max heap size to 25% of RAM (Java 11 and above). While it may not use all of that, it’s likely to. So, by default, running two Java apps on Java 11 on 8GB of RAM has the likely potential of eating 4GB RAM. Then there’s the OS needs, browser needs, etc.

Clearly 8GB isn’t enough for such a developer. I’ve had this discussion countless times with people over the past two decades. It always ends the same — with people from both sides of the discussion shaking their heads.

The only claim that I feel anyone can make, given enough experience, is that RAM needs vary. So making a claim that N amount of RAM is enough for many or most will always be patently wrong in my view.

Re: HP Dev One Laptop with Pop_OS

#330

Post by occoder »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #136
GekkePrutser wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, those double width keys will really screw with your muscle memory even more than the regular half-height ones, especially when you're frequently switching to an external keyboard.

They even have enough room for a normal inverted-T if they would just stop copying Apple and make the right shift key narrower. That would also open up a gap between the left arrow and Ctrl for easier blind navigation. This is too much superfluous style with gimped functionality.

Agree. The Right Shift key looks extra wide on this particular laptop, so that design would've left a decent width for the Right Shift key.

Then again, instead of all the extra wide keys and one extra column of keys to the right of the Enter key, why not two extra columns? Then we can:

1. avoid eating into the space of the Right Shift key

2. have Home/End/PageUp/PageDown in the same layout as in a full size keyboard

3. have Insert in there as oppose to being up on the function key row

4. have the power button in the top right corner instead of the awkward position it is in here, somewhere in the middle

Like I said, nobody gives keyboards one ounce of thought ever.

I don't think it's about copying Apple as much as an industry-wide neglect of keyboard design. Most people don't give the keyboard a lot of weight when making buying decisions, and consequently manufacturers give keyboard designs very little thought.

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