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Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

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Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#321

Post by silisili »

eru wrote: post #109
silisili wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why does it bother you that fellow programmers are getting salaries close to yours? I wasn't referring to programmers, but unskilled labor such as specifically, package sorting. Even some fast food jobs are approaching that number. > That will not actually affect you negatively in any way Absolutely untrue. When everyone has more money, money is worth less. See also, our current (underreported) inflation rate. I'd…

What makes you think the inflation rate is under-reported? Do you see any concern with other people making more money that would not be reflected in an (accurately reported) inflation rate?

> What makes you think the inflation rate is under-reported

I hope I don't come across as a conspiracy theorist here... but based on my own experience and also how CPI is calculated. CPI constantly shifts out items to 'mimic consumer behavior' which coincidentally also makes inflation look lower. As someone who hasn't really changed much, our grocery bills went way, way over any reported number. It is probably close to 30-40% in total(2019 to today), but I can't find any old receipts proving as much...yet.

Rent for us is up from 1700 to 2750 for like sized houses (due to not getting renewed, it's admittedly not on the exact same property).

And gas well, that tells its own story.

> Do you see any concern with other people making more money that would not be reflected in an (accurately reported) inflation rate?

No way! If everyone could make 100k a year and we could have 2018 prices back...that would damn near be a utopia.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#322

Post by greedo »

giantg2 wrote: post #245
eutropia wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your work in tech supposed to hold a sacred scalar linear multiple of the average labor cost ( read: salary of people who produce food and goods) of life’s necessities? So many entitled people arguing for an economic caste system… Arguing that your wage should always match or beat inflation is arguing for defacto permanent income inequality. You’re literally saying your work is always the same amount more valuable…

"So many entitled people arguing for an economic caste system…" I don't see that anywhere in my argument. "Arguing that your wage should always match or beat inflation is arguing for defacto permanent income inequality." Do you have an alternative approach? I have not heard any mainstream argument for setting all salaries/wages to be equal. You have to define income inequality and then determine what level of inequal…

Ok, time to put your money where your mouth is. In-N-Out pays its store managers over $100K/year. Their workers make around $25/hour which scales out to $50k/year for a full-time employee.

And trust me, most devs I know couldn't handle flipping burgers. Dealing with customers, dealing with managers, dealing with cleaning restrooms, dealing with late nights/early mornings.

So don't shit on burger flippers...

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#323

Post by omot »

I personally wish there is a healthier supply of modern housing in these attractive workplaces. Places like SF/NY/LA has atrocious rent and that’s okay if housing quality on average is okay but a lot of these buildings are 100+ years old, barely maintained or a new cash grab apartment complex that’s marketed as luxurious but look an inch deeper and you could tell these developers hardly spent time nor money knowing they get away with shoddy quality apartments. What’s the point of getting paid six figures when your office is higher quality and aesthetically pleasing than your own house.

The solution to all of this is a simpler zoning law at the federal / state level that allows competent developers to win in all markets. City level zoning laws prohibits the best developer from scaling and artificially creates cost for developers that care. How come there isn’t a household name akin to Apple for apartment development? I want to be able to stick to one amazing developer for a consistent experience across multiple markets especially now that remote work is becoming a permanent option for multiple developers.

I have a sibling that lives in Japan. They live 10 min away from downtown Osaka by train, their rent is $1100 a month, it’s not large but the apartment is extremely functional, space efficiently utilized for plenty of storage and rooms. There’s also a giant green park in the middle of the complex with a foot bath. They also talk about the developer and boasts about their brand. Their family makes 1/5 my salary but I still feel like they’re living the wealthier life.

Please we could start in California: More housing supply, Let the best developer win and scale, normalize old building tear downs.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#324

Post by travisgriggs »

I don’t feel underpaid. But I do feel undervalued.

I have bemusedly imagined a future discussion where when a prospective employer asks what salary I’m hoping to make I say the following:

“We’ll, that’s an interesting question. I want you to pay me X or 1.2X. If you’ll point me towards value and let me contribute towards that, and act like you trust me and include me in decision making processes, in short some form of equanimity, I’ll do this job excitedly for X. But if you’re going to treat me like a horse, micromanage me, overprocess me, basically devalue me, then that is going to cost you an extra 20%.”

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#325

Post by [deleted] »

mathverse wrote: post #122
DocTomoe wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be aware that if you include the taxes and mandatory insurances you have to pay (and your employer has to pay), you'd usually pass the six figures easily. It's easy to be a millionaire if the state takes fuck all from the paycheck.

47k net on 90k salary in Denmark. You guys have it insanely good and you dont even know it.

[deleted]

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#326

Post by countvonbalzac »

maxsilver wrote: post #215
eru wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only America's productive cities did not ban building more housing..

American cities don't ban housing construction (the one exception being San Francisco/Bay Area). Every other major US metro (literally everyone except SF) has been experiencing a massive housing construction boom for the past ten years straight now.

That's not true, every major city in the US is experiencing a major housing shortage. Not building enough units to keep up with demand can hardly be called a massive boom.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#327

Post by jolux »

maxsilver wrote: post #215
eru wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only America's productive cities did not ban building more housing..

American cities don't ban housing construction (the one exception being San Francisco/Bay Area). Every other major US metro (literally everyone except SF) has been experiencing a massive housing construction boom for the past ten years straight now.

This isn't true. Most major metros are experiencing a serious housing crisis right now. We see similar problems to SF here in Somerville and Cambridge, albeit to a lesser degree. There's certainly not enough being built to keep pace with demand. The suburbs around us are even worse.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#328

Post by blagie »

ar_lan wrote: post #284
indecisive_user wrote: post #5

>the average tech worker’s salary [will] reach $104,566 in the U.S. — a 6.9% increase since 2020, the report found. But inflation is over 11% since 2020. This isn't an increase. The average tech worker is making less than they were 2 years ago according to the Dice salary report. Why do tech workers feel underpaid? Many companies posted record growth and profits over the pandemic, but still give out paltry 3-5% raise…

> Most devs will admit that they couldn't readily pass the interview at even their own company without many hours of studying and practicing algorithms. I don't think, if asked to interview for it today, that I could land my current job. I'm also fairly certain I'm one of the top engineers on my team, and I do think we have a really good team of developers overall. It makes me feel better that I'm not alone, in this…

It's a random process.

If you set the bar 2 std. div. above what you need, you are hiring qualified people with a p value of 5%. You're rejecting /most/ qualified people too.

Most people underestimate how random the process is. There are a few ways in:

- Be 2 std. div above the qualifications

- Apply to many places and pick the one where you're lucky

- Give another, less noisy source of signal than resume + interview (e.g. networking into a company, consulting, references, major open source contributions, etc.)

I wouldn't get my current job if I randomly applied right now. I happened to do well on an interview process which wasn't well-aligned to my background. That was a fluke. I was probably the most-qualified candidate, but if I didn't have a lucky day, I don't think an interview would have shown that.

Last hiring cycle, I was also rejected several places where I am pretty sure I was better than the candidate who was hired too. If you make this about you, you'll feel horrible. If you understand the huge random factor, you'll do much better.

(Disclaimer: I have specialized skills, so my interview process isn't a typical SWE interview process).

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#329

Post by Root_Denied »

elcomet wrote: post #291
Ozzie_osman wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The money we make pales in comparison with the size of our contributions to the company. That's unfortunately not how markets work. If you create 10M of value every year, and are only paid 250K for doing it, it's because there is someone else out there who is willing to do it for the same. (Yes, there are asymmetries in information and power, but broadly, tech salaries are market-driven)

But then some competitor should come and sell the same thing for much less money, which means that you do not really create 10M value.

That's why companies try and sell you their brand and/or their ecosystem as well as their product.

Arguably one of the best at doing this is Apple. A similar product exists and has cheaper options (various Android flavors) but people prefer their green text bubbles and status symbol brand effect.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#330

Post by sircastor »

dasil003 wrote: post #288

It's subtle, but the headline feels a bit like low-key class warfare clickbait. No one feels underpaid because their salary is six figures, it's because of what they're paid relative to their peers and workload. The article actually covers this decently well, but the headlines makes it sound like techies are a bunch of entitled brats.

This is important. I feel it's especially true of folks outside of the Bay area, who hear of 400-600K compensation packages and wonder why they're being paid "so poorly"

A personal anecdote: A (very much) junior colleague decided to move jobs and when I asked them they told me their new salary - $15k more than I was making (and I had 15 years of experience on them). This person is totally competent and I was delighted they were getting that salary, but I was annoyed that I was not when I had so much more experience.

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