Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, they don't, generally. When was the last time you were required to compose code in a real world situation, in front of someone, while talking through your thought process, all under time pressure and in a high-stakes environment?
Any time you want to rubber duck because there's a hard problem you can't figure out and talking it through with someone else is useful.
IBM's Asshole Test
321–330 of 604 posts
Re: IBM's Asshole Test
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
I should have been clearer. After thinking for a bit I did start asking questions, but the interviewer didn't give me any useful information. IIRC I asked if I could assume the problem was small enough that I could just do a brute force search of possible solutions and the answer came back that no, they needed a solution which would work for any size; I know I asked other questions but I can't remember what they were…
What structure should there be for nlogn solution to be applicable?
Re: IBM's Asshole Test
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
I didn’t read it as a deliberate test, but that if the driver let them know the candidate was rude, it would be a negative mark.
"The taxi driver would sometimes complain to the people in the hiring loop when a candidate was rude to him." That also seems pretty implausible to me. The taxi driver is going to text or email HR or the hiring manager or someone? How frequently are people so rude to the taxi driver that they are disqualified from consideration? Does the taxi driver get compensated? Why is the taxi driver doing this? Does anybody vet…
Re: IBM's Asshole Test
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think this is a fair and nuanced comment. However, you seem to be stating (correct me if I'm wrong) that there are really two categories of situations here - situation A, where someone is an Asshole with a capital A, and situation B where you have a neurodiverse or immigrant candidate that is misinterpreting the situation and should not be dismissed based on their behavior. I can easily agree that both situations a…
> Is there an easy and objective way to tell the difference? Better question, does it matter? As you said, bad hires are expensive. We aren't talking about language barriers here, we're talking about behavior that comes across as (your words) capital A asshole. If the person is going to behave that way on the job and it drags the team down, does it matter why they behave that way? I know I wouldn't want to be stuck w…
> It also goes to the WASP distaste or disdain for the Jewish style of discourse. Historically, someone at IBM saying a candidate was brusque could quite easy be code for saying they were Jewish.
I have the kind of personality which likes facts, details, debate, argument, pedantry, technicalities, obscurities, etc – given that, I get on quite well with other people who have that kind of personality. I'm not especially bothered by bluntness, and though I try not to be too blunt, I probably am sometimes anyway. But I know some people sometimes perceive personalities like mine as "rude" – possibly even "assholes". When my wife and I were getting married, I got in a dispute with the church secretary over what kind of proof of identity documents we were legally required to produce. I pointed out to her she was wrong, and that if she read section 42 of the Marriage Act 1961 it should be obvious to her that she was wrong. She was very offended by that suggestion. In hindsight, I try to see things from her point of view – she's probably never read any legislation in her life, wouldn't even know where to look for it, the idea of reading legislation sounds scary, she isn't used to reading legal texts and might struggle to understand it (or worry that she would), etc. Whereas, for me, I'm the kind of person who reads legislation for fun, and of course I'm going to read the laws about marriage before getting married – and the thought that most other people aren't like me isn't the first thought that pops into my head, I have a somewhat autistic mind which gravitates to the facts immediately, and is slower to think about the impact those facts might have on the thoughts and feelings of others. Then again, the thought that there are people like me probably didn't pop into her head either, and if it did she would likely have been far less offended.
I'm not Jewish myself (mostly Irish Catholic ancestry), but I actually have an appreciation for some of the bluntness of traditional Jewish culture – Israelis often call themselves sabra, after the Hebrew word for the prickly pear, the idea being that while they do have somewhat of a reputation for rudeness and bluntness on the surface (the prickles), it hides a soft and sweet interior (as the prickly pear itself does). I suppose I have some appreciation for that cultural trait precisely because some aspects of it overlap with my own personality.
Also, I'm Australian, and Australians have somewhat of a reputation for being blunt, rude, overly informal, particularly by American standards. I remember once reading an interview with an outgoing US Ambassador to Australia (I wish I could find it now) explaining how he was a bit taken aback by this cultural difference at first but got used to it over time. On the other hand, one of my Argentine colleagues once told me that I am "extremely polite" – I think in certain ways I actually am – although I also have absolutely no clue what Argentine ideas of politeness are and how they may compare to Australian or American or Israeli or whatever politeness standards.
Anyway, my point is, sometimes "drags the team down" may be because a person really is behaving in an objectively problematic way, other times "drags the team down" may actually be because the existing team has insufficient awareness of cultural and personal diversity, and is being overly judgemental of someone who is different from them. I'm sure both sometimes happen.
Re: IBM's Asshole Test
#325Earlier quoted context omitted.
"The taxi driver would sometimes complain to the people in the hiring loop when a candidate was rude to him." That also seems pretty implausible to me. The taxi driver is going to text or email HR or the hiring manager or someone? How frequently are people so rude to the taxi driver that they are disqualified from consideration? Does the taxi driver get compensated? Why is the taxi driver doing this? Does anybody vet…
> The taxi driver is going to text or email HR or the hiring manager or someone? That would be indeed implausible. But not every transaction happens between undeferentiated cogs. A specific person organises the interview logistics from the company. Let’s call him Joe. When they agree with a candidate on an interview date Joe picks up the phone and calls the hotel to book a room. After that Joe calls George the truste…
It's also bizarre to me that the company would have a "trusted taxi driver". A trusted driver for executives or something might make sense, but a trusted driver who isn't employed by your organization that you specifically route candidates through? It just doesn't sound like the type of thing that happens much to me.
Finally, on the subject of people being randomly rude to taxi drivers, never having been a taxi driver I don't have real first hand information. I did ride a public city bus multiple times a day for years though and the number of people who I witnessed being rude to the driver, who were not visibly drunk or homeless, is zero. It just doesn't fit with my experience of humanity to think that, in a typical daytime taxi ride you're going to get much absurdly inappropriate behavior - i.e behavior that would rise to the level of disqualifying the candidate. Maybe if the taxi driver were a woman I'd believe it, but I bet the vast majority of people would just say where they wanted to go and little else.
Re: IBM's Asshole Test
#326In Robert Heinlein's early juvenile novel Space Cadet, the applicants are given a device and a set of instructions. The instructions make no sense for the device in question. Assuming this is based on something real life, I suppose it was the same underlying idea. Nobody could complete the instructions. They wanted to see what people did. How do people react to frustration and bad orders? There is plenty of frustrati…
'What?' Sma said, puzzled.
'Turning the maps upside down,' he repeated. 'Have you any idea how annoying and inconvenient it is when you get to a place and find that they map the place the other way up compared to the maps you've got? Because of something stupid like some people think a magnetic needle is pointing up to heaven, when other people think it's just heavier and pointing down? Or because it's done according to the galactic plane or something? I mean, this might sound trivial, but it's very upsetting.'
'Zakalwe, I had no idea. Let me offer you my apologies and those of the entire Special Circumstances Section; no, all of Contact; no: the entire Culture; no: all intelligent species.'
'Sma, you remorseless bitch, I'm trying to be serious.'
'No, I don't think you are. Maps...'
'But it's true! They turn them the wrong way up!'
'Then there must,' Diziet Sma said, 'be a reason for it.'
'What?' he demanded.
'Psychology,' Sma and the drone said at the same time.
—— Use of Weapons, Iain M. Banks, London: Orbit, 1990
Re: IBM's Asshole Test
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
Interesting. Honestly, I'm the guy who would just "roll with it" and eat whatever was brought to me because I honestly can't bring the energy to arguing with the waiter. But having hired people and other professionals, I almost always hire the person who would assert themselves and demand the right thing be done. Why? Well, I recognize that I don't like to be "that guy". So I hire people who can do it for me. It has…
As "that guy" it's somewhat refreshing to hear this. I think the key is really self-awareness and understanding of group dynamics enough to help you get the balance of individuals right.
Re: IBM's Asshole Test
#328Earlier quoted context omitted.
Every time I pair program. Also sometimes I've given talks that way. I like it, I guess not everybody does.
You pair program under time pressure similar to interview conditions? Really? I find that hard to believe. As for giving talks that way, I would not say that qualifies as a high stakes environment. Your likely worst case scenario is that either your code or some bit of technology involved doesn't work right, so you laugh it off and explain what was supposed to happen.
The worst case scenario in a talk is that I say something stupid and get really dogmatic and defensive about it, leading the hundreds of people watching the talk to conclude that I'm an ignorant jerk, which, well, I can be, but I'd rather they didn't overestimate the frequency of that! I could lose face.
The worst case scenario in an interview is that the person interviewing me says something stupid and gets really dogmatic and defensive about it, and then they and their company lose face.
Oh, and they could decide not to offer me the job. But that's never been much of a problem, and it's certainly no big deal — if you're only interviewing for jobs you're almost sure to be offered, you should probably interview for more advanced positions. Not being offered a job is far from "losing out on a big opportunity", as you said in your other comment. A job gives you money enough to live on, but if you're a programmer jobs that pay a living wage are plentiful.
(But less plentiful if people go to your talks and decide you're a nincompoop or a scumbag.)
Re: IBM's Asshole Test
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
By '06 Google was already public so you weren't going to make life changing, never work again in your life money from stock awards/options. At best you'd be sitting on a decent nest egg that maybe bought you some property or better investments if you were smart (and a $250k supercar is not a smart investment).
That's definitely not true. Even post-IPO, the stock has had tremendous growth and RSUs are evergreen.
Re: IBM's Asshole Test
#330First off, I never wanted to be an Executive, whatever that is. I wanted to do research, but when you are young and right out of school and they hit you with that you don't say no. So I went with the flow. They flew us around the country and we would be put in all these similar goofy psychologist designed situations. They even told us that they had hired PhD's in psychology and they where trying to figure out what makes a good Executive. I recall them giving us the Rorschach test and for fun I would say crazy stuff like, that looks like the nucleus of an atom when you are supposed to, obviously say, that looks like a butterfly, but fuck them, ya, it looks like a butterfly but for all we know that is what the nucleus of an atom looks like, or a super nova nebula, whatever.
These psychologists followed us around for 25 years and eventually wrote a book about us "guinea pigs". I have a copy of this book and I can clearly see me in it, I am that asshole, no question about that.
Their brilliant conclusion was that people with very high IQ's (I guess they said I had scored "off the charts" on IQ, whatever the fuck that actually means). So, OK, I am too smart to be an executive is what they concluded. But they never asked me if I gave a shit about being an Executive and maybe I was just fucking with them.
Anyhow, it was funny, and I got to travel all over the country on their dime and half the people in this thing just slept with each other and crap. Maybe that is the real test of Exec material ? hahahaha.