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Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

blog.plover.com

321–330 of 359 posts

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#321
post #310
post #41

ADHD is a common condition in adults, estimated to be around 3-5% of the population. It's very frequently comorbid with other behavioral disorders like depression, bipolar disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder, etc. But even "pure" ADHD can be quite disadvantageous. People with ADHD are much less likely to finish school, have trouble staying employed, more likely to be divorced, have greater health care utilization…

Thank you for having this perspective to help treat your adhd patients, wish there were more like you. I’ve encountered quite a few doctors who admitted they are scared of the DEA and losing their license and make us jump through flaming hoops to adjust dosages of stimulants or force us to navigate a byzantine maze of psychiatry to get to a psychiatrist that will take the liability away for prescribing/adjusting sche…

Amphetamine has such an interesting history. Synthesized in 1887, first used in the 1930s, and in 1937 discovered to have a remarkably favorable effect on hyperactive boys. Methylphenidate (Ritalin) came along somewhat later.

85 years later these two drugs are still the mainstay of ADHD treatment. Sure delivery systems have proliferated and drug variants have been available. Stimulant-class medications remain first-line treatments. Amazingly even after nearly a century nothing better has ever been developed, and it certainly hasn't been for lack of trying.

Prior to 1970 there were relatively few restrictions, but widespread abuse lead to legislation establishing the DEA and tightened regulations. Drugs of abuse were sifted into a schedule of classes 1 to 5, where class 2 drugs were legal to prescribe but subject to limits intended to reduce diversion and misuse.

BTW one of the legal schedule 2 drugs is methamphetamine, approved for ADHD. We know it can be misused, leads to severe dependency problems, but used properly is an effective and quite tolerable treatment for ADHD. Indeed I have prescribed it for a number of patients in the past.

With the huge opioid crisis that's emerged in recent years scrutiny by state licensing boards has increased regarding prescribing patterns. This is making many prescribers nervous to the max. While the thrust of regulators has been in regard to opioid drugs other scheduled drugs such as stimulants, benzodiazepines are caught up in it as well.

Primary care docs are affected by the zealous "witchhunt" in regard to prescribing practices. Hospitals, clinic administrators, etc., are equally touchy about docs prescribing scheduled drugs. So prescribers anticipate getting static if they prescribe stimulants however reasonable it may be. Especially true for PCPs who lack specific training in managing ADHD--harder to defend their actions if challenged by admins.

Among psychiatrists (who should know about ADHD) other factors are operating. Some don't like dealing with ADHD patients, notorious for poor follow through, don't show up for appointments, lose prescriptions, don't pay their bills, etc. Also ADHD cases are frequently more complicated than average due to comorbidities, social issues (marriage/family problems, difficulty at job, etc.), potential for substance use disorder.

Patients without ADHD are more likely to be comparatively more straightforward to deal with, so ADHD sufferers aren't accepted as patients.

Yes indeed, "pill mills" have made everyone's life more difficult. But it doesn't mean every doc who prescribes scheduled drugs operates a pill mill. The tendency to throw out babies with their bathwater is fearsome to many doctors.

Here's my advice to colleagues: every patient deserves a thorough diagnostic evaluation. If ADHD is one diagnosis, it should be treated vigorously within appropriate clinical guidelines. If stimulant treatment is indicated start with a low dose, titrate gradually until reaching an effective and tolerable level. Do not neglect behavioral treatments, these are essential. (Book-length description in progress.)

The SECRET to successful treatment and keeping regulators at bay: excellent clinical documentation. I never was "in trouble" over prescribing, I had the records showing rationale for every prescription, so nothing to be afraid of.\

Your story isn't unusual, there's a shortage of qualified, and willing, providers in this domain. Combined with a cultural bias against and misunderstanding of people with ADHD the treatment situation is troublesome. Educating providers and the public is badly needed. If that's done, over time availability of high-quality care for people with ADHD will improve.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#322
post #238
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

citation?

Jesus fuck. Spencer RC, Devilbiss DM, Berridge CW (June 2015). "The Cognition-Enhancing Effects of Psychostimulants Involve Direct Action in the Prefrontal Cortex". Biological Psychiatry. 77 (11): 940–950. doi:10.1016/j.biopsych.2014.09.013. PMC 4377121. PMID 25499957. Ilieva IP, Hook CJ, Farah MJ (June 2015). "Prescription Stimulants' Effects on Healthy Inhibitory Control, Working Memory, and Episodic Memory: A Meta…

a quick scan of the papers you linked (top 2 results, I got bored after that) shows that the studies specifically refer to ADHD patients. I'm not sure the links prove the point you're trying to make.

Tangentially related, interesting tidbit from Russel Barkley:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYq571cycqg

TL;DR: stimulants prescribed to children promote normal brain development.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#323

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ADD is just old terminology. You have ADHD, and you should read up on some updated science cause you got some very weird, very wrong ideas about your own condition. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33549739/

[...] 15 The clinical presentation of ADHD can be described as primarily inattentive, primarily hyperactive-impulsive, or combined, depending on the nature of their symptoms (American Psychiat-ric Association, 2013). [...] I assume ADD is nowadays just a shorthand for the primarily inattentive presentation.

I use it that way too cause my non-native english tongue struggles to pronounce the H but saying "I don't have ADHD, I have ADD" is really specifically and factually wrong.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#324
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for having this perspective to help treat your adhd patients, wish there were more like you. I’ve encountered quite a few doctors who admitted they are scared of the DEA and losing their license and make us jump through flaming hoops to adjust dosages of stimulants or force us to navigate a byzantine maze of psychiatry to get to a psychiatrist that will take the liability away for prescribing/adjusting sche…

Amphetamine has such an interesting history. Synthesized in 1887, first used in the 1930s, and in 1937 discovered to have a remarkably favorable effect on hyperactive boys. Methylphenidate (Ritalin) came along somewhat later. 85 years later these two drugs are still the mainstay of ADHD treatment. Sure delivery systems have proliferated and drug variants have been available. Stimulant-class medications remain first-l…

Thank you so much for your detailed and response. Your patients are so lucky to have you! You should really speak at conferences, your voice needs to be heard on this topic!

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#325
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're purposefully misrepresenting what "works" means in this context. ADHD people can think a lot more clearly with it. The effect of stimulants is completely different on a brain like ours compared to a normal person as it helps regulates brain function in a way that ours can't. For normal people it just gets you euphoric and agitated, we get CALMER cause we live in a state of constant agitation.

It's not completely different or even mostly different. Getting euphoric and agitated happens with doses an order of magnitude higher than therapeutic doses. Low-dose Adderall has been used to help neurotypical people focus for at least a century, though not of course by that name. Your vicious, baseless attack on my integrity has no place here. Withdraw it immediately.

I'm even more convinced now than before that you're in bad faith.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#326
post #246
post #182

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I am very close to someone who suffers from this disorder. Their inability to function in terms of personal care, family, social life, occupationally, etc. goes way beyond "normal behaviour in a system that does not accommodate everyone". Try imagining a literal five-year old in a grown-up body. That's what this person is like when it comes to anything that does not have immediate ( I say this with love, to be clear.…

There are extremes to any condition. By far most people with ADHD manage to survive just fine. That survival could be changed into thriving for a big number of them if only society would get their collective head out of their collective arses and not tilt at the slightest sign of "different."

In a lot of areas, thriving has nothing to do with society's reaction. Leaving kitchen cupboards open and then ramming your head into them isn't something that society blames or stigmatizes someone for, it just hurts. Having a difficult time pursuing one's own goals isn't about how someone fits into society's expected roles—it's about not having the executive and organizational skills to design a path forward and then (remember to) stick with it.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#327

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Being short can be a disorder. It just so happens that picking fruit from tall trees by itself isn't considered by society to be a very necessary & important activity, while "social, school, or work functioning" is. Adults who remain too short to do things that are considered necessary & important for adults to do would almost certainly have a negative disorder of some kind. That criteria sentence from the CDC websit…

If the DSM-V definition is overly broad, and the truth behind ADHD is different, is that not fairly alarming? Currently 9.4% of children are diagnosed with ADHD[1], but we don't diagnose 9.4% of the population as having a disorder on merit of being very tall or very short. In fact, with ADHD, we're also not also counting the opposite of ADHD as a disability, so we're counting a HUGE swathe of the lower end of the spe…

What do you make of the research concluding that MRI can identify ADHD and distinguish among subtypes?

https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/10.1148/radiol.2017170226

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#328
post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amphetamine has such an interesting history. Synthesized in 1887, first used in the 1930s, and in 1937 discovered to have a remarkably favorable effect on hyperactive boys. Methylphenidate (Ritalin) came along somewhat later. 85 years later these two drugs are still the mainstay of ADHD treatment. Sure delivery systems have proliferated and drug variants have been available. Stimulant-class medications remain first-l…

Thank you so much for your detailed and response. Your patients are so lucky to have you! You should really speak at conferences, your voice needs to be heard on this topic!

Appreciate the kind words. Whenever I do something actually useful, it's a real thrill!

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hirvi, this is brilliant and so relateable, so thank you. Mine are very similar, but I would add with respect to your points... 1. Yes, but I also have to know that I am the one in charge... otherwise I will not take charge, but I will be ready to be told exactly what to do, and THAT I will do very quickly. [see A below] 2. Also yes, and true for software development too, but it makes the long burn so difficult. Give…

Thank you, and I greatly appreciate your comment as well. 1. I can sympathize. 2. I am software engineer that has and currently played various extreme sports, so there is probably a strong correlation lol. 3. I don't have enough bandwidth to implement thing sometimes when the RAM is maxed out and I do not have any Swap Space. 4. Makes sense. My family was predominantly in the medical field and they constantly would h…

3. Yes, that too. It becomes burn-out at the worst.

>> "intellectualise social interaction" rings a bell

> I tried to search for what this meant, but I found a few differing ideas that I didn't know which one to attribute to what you meant. Do you mind elaborating?

That was the goal behind me asking... if it did ring a bell; I think you'd know! I pre-plan social interactions, they inevitably never go as planned, then I spend forever ruminating on what I did wrong. Rinse, repeat.

To your concluding paragraph, I think a way to join back up these disparate threads is a reminder that ADHD and autism are both non-binary, spectrum conditions... they're labels slapped on a grab bag of manifested difference->disorder->disability symptoms, hence diagnostic criteria that are: "has to have 5 out of 8 of these factors".

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#330
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It definitely does not work like that here. It is quite hard to get those drugs prescribed. You wont get them with 5 min long visit.

I don't know what to tell you. I did get it exactly like I described, in Germany, and it was an online appointment.

> I don't know what to tell you.

Maybe try not telling them "everywhere in the EU".

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