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Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

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Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#321

Post by fallingfrog »

honkycat wrote: post #262

Greed is destabilizing society everywhere you look. 1. Hire more nurses to spread the load around 2. Pay existing nurses more 3. Incentivize people to get the technical training required to become a nurse. "But what about my boss's 4th home?" I know. I am worried about that too. i pay 1500/mo to live there, and the costs will probably trickle down to me. we will have to figure something out. "But we don't have the mo…

"Well. Then I guess the goose is cooked. We no longer have the resources to run a functioning society. I want you to think about that, and maybe think if we could get the funding from somewhere."

Absolutely! Thanks, this made me laugh out loud. It's almost as if the people in charge of society don't have the same interests as the rest of us..

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#322

Post by DocTomoe »

JackFr wrote: post #250
pc86 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance is the only industry where they agree to pay for something (in this case, "medical care"), but then after service has been rendered can decide to pay less, or not pay at all, or stop paying that provider altogether, etc. This combined with hospitals being run by non-physicians*, and people thinking being able to Google and read WebMD qualifies them to argue with their doctor about treatment plans**, healthc…

> * I strongly believe that only physicians should be running hospitals. Certainly not administrators whose only education is an MHA and only experience is working for for-profit health companies. The skills need to run a hospital are quite different than those required to be a doctor. I'm not saying hospitals aren't unique - I believe they are and their adminstration is highly specialized. Doctors should inform the…

> The skills need to run a hospital are quite different than those required to be a doctor.

And still, in many countries, including highly industrialized ones, hospitals are run by doctors. So either US administrators are making their hospitals run a lot better (which does not seem to be the case), or the core incentives each group optimizes for are different.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#324

Post by PragmaticPulp »

bitsnbytes wrote: post #196
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How doctors of all professions lost their professional agency to do-nothing administrators within a generation is quite puzzling and a bit terrifying to me. I have a lot of friends at various levels of healthcare, from nursing up through low and mid-level administrative positions. The one thing they all seem to agree on is that patient satisfaction surveys have been terrible for healthcare. Once the emphasis shifte…

"The one thing they all seem to agree on is that patient satisfaction surveys have been terrible for healthcare." My Wife is an ER nurse manager and while you have many self entitled idiotic patients that think they are staying in a resort versus visiting an ER, the patient satisfaction surveys is not very high in regards to the issue and why nurses are leaving. My wife actually had a person complain that the ER did…

> My Wife is an ER nurse manager and while you have many self entitled idiotic patients that think they are staying in a resort versus visiting an ER, the patient satisfaction surveys is not very high in regards to the issue and why nurses are leaving.

ER is definitely a different ballgame. Thanks for the additional perspective.

The patient satisfaction surveys apply more to domains where repeat visits are the norm: Family doctor, nurse practitioners, and so on. (Ideally, none of us becomes a frequent customer of the ER nurses!)

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#325

Post by black_puppydog »

germinalphrase wrote: post #55

I have a close relation that works for one of the oldest pediatric hospitals in the country. It was recently revealed that they will be shuttering almost all pediatric services in the next year because they can 10x their profits by only serving elderly clients. The entire purpose of this organization was to provide pediatric healthcare, and it wasn’t losing money… Sometimes, it feels like we’re min-maxing ourselves t…

Yeah if they're only after profits, why not become a hedge fund?

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#326

Post by tubalcain »

belval wrote: post #52
brightball wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance companies. Everything is controlled by insurance companies. You can’t do anything unless it’s exactly how insurance wants and only for what insurance will pay. It limits everything, including how every profession can be compensated simply because you can’t easily hire somebody for more than what insurance will pay for their services. You can, but the funds have to come from somewhere.

I doubt that it's as simple as that. Nurses are also leaving in Canada and we don't have insurance breathing down their neck.

Canada's solution will be to mass-import nurses from the third world who will do twice as much work for half as much money. Mark my words.

It's already happened with low-wage fast food jobs. Health care is next. Nurses and doctors will be replaced by poorly-trained third-world counterparts.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#327

Post by etchalon »

TrispusAttucks wrote: post #174
rjbwork wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Efficient systems are brittle systems. You wring all the slack out of it and any shock is going to cause failure. In this case, the slack is the nurses and other healthcare workers' mental health and burnout limits and pay and culture etc. etc. The slack is being pulled to lower costs and increase insurance/hospital profits. It's unsurprising that what has happened in the past couple of years is putting stress on a s…

You're spot on. This pattern is emerging across many structures. Efficiency is inverse correlated with resiliency. JIT systems have spread over the globe but they don't handle shocks in the pipeline very well.

"Efficiency is inverse correlated with resiliency.".

Well, I'm jotting that down in a notebook.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#328

Post by ipaddr »

pc86 wrote: post #85
brightball wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance companies. Everything is controlled by insurance companies. You can’t do anything unless it’s exactly how insurance wants and only for what insurance will pay. It limits everything, including how every profession can be compensated simply because you can’t easily hire somebody for more than what insurance will pay for their services. You can, but the funds have to come from somewhere.

Insurance is the only industry where they agree to pay for something (in this case, "medical care"), but then after service has been rendered can decide to pay less, or not pay at all, or stop paying that provider altogether, etc. This combined with hospitals being run by non-physicians*, and people thinking being able to Google and read WebMD qualifies them to argue with their doctor about treatment plans**, healthc…

* In this day and age not being your own doctor/advocate will produce unwanted unnecessary results.

If you look up possible treatments /side effects and your personal history you will be in a better position to engage and weight options. If you blindly accept everything you will end up on the most profitable treatment plan plan insurance allowed.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#329

Post by thomasahle »

LewisVerstappen wrote: post #249
yhoneycomb wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, that’s exactly how unfettered “free market” capitalism operates. The end game is big companies end up controlling everything, including the regulations in order to tip the scales in their favor.

Regulatory capture is the issue that needs to be solved. Not free markets. Free markets are the most efficient way for information to be transferred throughout the system. Stricter campaign finance laws, ending revolving-door politics, etc. But putting the blame on free markets seems like a mistake.

Monopolization and regulatory capture are standard features of free markets, if you leaving them running long enough.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#330

Post by tubalcain »

birdmanjeremy wrote: post #84
phil21 wrote: post #17

While it's anecdote, every single peer in bedside medical care I know without exception has either left the field, or has immediate plans to as soon as student loan debt is repaid. The few older medical professionals in my family are simply sticking out the last few years until they can retire early. This was generally the case prior to pandemic due to how poor the work environment has become, but the pandemic seems…

I'm friends with quite a few nurses, primarily travel nurses, and not a single one is considering a change in career that I am aware of. Simply an anecdotal counterpoint and nothing more.

Travel nurses make six figures and get to sample choice cuts from the local Tinder menu every time they take on a new job.
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