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twitter/the-algorithm

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Re: twitter/the-algorithm

#321

Post by stjohnswarts »

nthot wrote: post #113
ProAm wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or is it six cats in a basement with a laser pointer and a mouse? The point of releasing it is to let people know exactly why they see the tweets they do in the order they do. I hope Elon just goes back to time base ordering of tweets.

Disclaimer: I'm pretty new to twitter, so I may be misunderstanding something. On my Twitter Home Screen there are three little stars on the upper right of the central container which allow you to toggle between "top tweets" (ie. 'The Algorithm') and "latest tweets" which is the time based ordering.

You understand it, it's just like instagram, facebook, reddit etc, you let them pick something for you via some algo or you order by date.

Re: twitter/the-algorithm

#322

Post by beepbooptheory »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #199
mhh__ wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it doesn't make sense. I think it's just a dog whistle to the people who believe google have a guy in a room somewhere turning the "conservative search results" lever down a notch during elections.

It's not a dog whistle, it's just a simplification because it's easier to say "the algorithm" than describing the system. Moreover, this nomenclature was mainstreamed by left-wing concern about "racist algorithms", especially in law enforcement, so it's not a partisan phrase at all.

That isn't very fair though, because its very different concern isn't it?

The racist algorithms critique isn't that their is a shadowy conspiracy of people pushing buttons behind the curtain, getting the results they want with conscious decisions, it is a concern about datasets mainly, as well as sociological questions about unconscious bias in testing and verifying the correctness of programs, which can cascade into social effects.

It is a completely different thing, and one grounded in actual research.

Re: twitter/the-algorithm

#324

Post by cscurmudgeon »

Traster wrote: post #207
axg11 wrote: post #95

I've worked on very large scale recommendation systems at a FAANG. If Twitter's system resembles anything like ours, the concept of publishing or open sourcing "the algorithm" doesn't make sense. Even if we were to open source all associated code and publish all related documents it would be very difficult to make sense of the entire system. That is precisely why companies such as Twitter A/B test the hell out of eve…

It's so difficult as someone who works in technology to tolerate this idea that there is "an algorithm". Maybe this will get flagged on HN but the overwhelming feeling is to just scream "don't be such a fucking idiot, this is a $43Bn company it doesn't boil down to 50 lines of code" and hell, there are plenty of examples of 50 lines of code at my company I could spend a month really understanding and even then not un…

> it doesn't boil down to 50 lines of code

No one said that. You created a straw man and are arguing with it.

This comment says more about you than you think.

Re: twitter/the-algorithm

#325

Post by Sirened »

paxys wrote: post #70

I'm going to guess some engineers at Twitter with Github org permissions are having fun with the "release the algorithm" discussion.

haha that's what I figured, someone decided to quit if Musk acquired Twitter and figured they'd just leave one last practical joke

Re: twitter/the-algorithm

#326

Post by samhw »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #89
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's an algorithm. If you have to draw a diagram showing how edge cache nodes affect a user's results based on whether or not they signed in from New York or Phoenix, or if the downtime of a cluster affects the relevance rankings of tweets for a photography enthusiast, then guess what... That's an algorithm.

This shouldn't be downvoted. Any black box with inputs and outputs is a function over discrete data, otherwise known as an algorithm.

> a function over discrete data, otherwise known as an algorithm

'A function over discrete data' is a far broader concept / far larger set than 'an algorithm'.

Re: twitter/the-algorithm

#327

Post by cscurmudgeon »

Traster wrote: post #294
farias0 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that most people actually believe "the algorithm" is like a Python script or something.

The average person on twitter isn't a software engineer. They won't know what python is. They don't know what an algorithm is. So let's be clear about what the baseline is here. There's no point talking to them about how you distribute queries using micro-services or whaever bullshit twitter's engineering team bought into this season. This idea that "the algorithm" is something you can just "publish" is a pernicious…

This is a bad take. Just because it is a stupid unaccountable heap of shit now doesn't mean it has to remain that way in the future.

Re: twitter/the-algorithm

#328

Post by stjohnswarts »

memish wrote: post #236
axg11 wrote: post #95

I've worked on very large scale recommendation systems at a FAANG. If Twitter's system resembles anything like ours, the concept of publishing or open sourcing "the algorithm" doesn't make sense. Even if we were to open source all associated code and publish all related documents it would be very difficult to make sense of the entire system. That is precisely why companies such as Twitter A/B test the hell out of eve…

Even just releasing the audit trail of shadowbans, upranking, downranking would be meaningful. Full transparency of actions taken in the past and going forward.

This will never happen, not even under Elon. It makes them wide open to litigation.

Re: twitter/the-algorithm

#329

Post by AviationAtom »

layer8 wrote: post #161
AviationAtom wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think recent news of the EU compelling social media companies to disclose their algorithms has anything to do with this?

No, the repository is a joke (IME). Regarding the EU, the details haven’t even been nailed down yet, and the timeline is that it will only become a requirement in 2024 I believe. The goal also isn’t to publish “the algorithm”, but to give researchers and civil society representatives access to the training data and information about the most important factors controlling the algorithm, so they can make assessments on…

They don't necessarily have to publish code to the repo though, they could just as well publish papers that document their algorithm.

Re: twitter/the-algorithm

#330

Post by KrishnaShripad »

lupire wrote: post #272
KrishnaShripad wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it the algorithm or was it a "guy in a room" which/who decided to block New York Post's article on Hunter Biden's laptop scandal?

Twitter has a clear policy about posting and linking to doxxing / stolen private files / revenge porn. They never blocked based on commentary about the the laptop or the Burisma allegations, and only blocked NY Post account until they stopped trying to post the doxxing / revenge porn content.

> Twitter has a clear policy about posting and linking to doxxing

Excellent. So when is Twitter going to ban Taylor Lorenz for doxxing an anonymous Twitter user LibsofTikTok? This is her tweet right here: https://twitter.com/TaylorLorenz/status/1516399663305297920

It has been up since April 19th, 2022. Twitter immediately blocked New York Post's tweet.

I wonder why the algorithm is so slow when it comes to Taylor Lorenz? Maybe we'll find out when the code is open sourced. Then we can all legitimately blame "the algorithm" for causing all this divide between the left and right wing in a neutral, faultless, perfect digital town square called Twitter.

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