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TX-6 – Teenage Engineering

teenage.engineering

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Re: TX-6 – Teenage Engineering

#321

Post by IAmPym »

krageon wrote: post #315
IAmPym wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your making the assumption that one can buy 1000 of any part, which is likely incorrect These ain’t normal times

Are you lecturing someone who does this for a living on the environment of their specific professional setting? Why do you assume you know better?

As above, not only do I do this for a living but in the specific sub-industry this product is made for, which means in this particular case I know quite a bit. Very seldom do I think I know better but in this case I have industry specific knowledge

Re: TX-6 – Teenage Engineering

#322

Post by IAmPym »

erichmond wrote: post #212
IAmPym wrote: post #159

"Why is it so expensive?" - commentary from someone who does this for a living at Sequential Small Volume - each unit is more expensive than a large volume product, you don't get price breaks on any components or tooling costs Design focused - Who is the product for? It isn't for people who want to spend 250$ on a Behringer mixer. It is for people who want something that is high quality and doesn't break. Reliable. F…

As an owner of a Rev2 and a P6 really cool to see you here Pym!

Good to be here occasionally, considering writing up some blog posts I figured this community might find interesting. Seems like we are well liked enough that it might be fun

Re: TX-6 – Teenage Engineering

#323

Post by IAmPym »

ajxs wrote: post #305
IAmPym wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just trying to give you perspective Nearly every complex instrument still has critical bugs after 10 years because development moves on after 4-5 years. Hardware bugs are != software bugs in terms of complexity because the debugging and tools you have available are simply not even close to comparable. This is why you don't get a whole lot of complex instruments from small companies. I applaud anyone who gives it…

I appreciate your obvious experience in this area, however synthesisers with more features, and more complicated user interfaces than the OP-1 have existed longer than I've been alive. I know this is not from a small company, but take for instance Yamaha's SY77 from 1989. It's built around a 16-bit Hitachi H8/500 processor, with 1MB of SRAM. It's CPU, synth engine, and peripherals are all glued together with 7400-ser…

Good example we can explore!

So in this case there are a lot of differences:

Comparing TE with Yamaha is a pretty massive difference in size of engineering teams and overall engineering knowledge. In the 80s the products, while definitely complex, had some advantages: back then you could get very simple and precise parts from many manufacturers because you had more small chip foundries available. seriously, try and find options for some of the bread and butter chips and you go crazy. The industry has consolidated most functionality into complex SoC parts which increase the bugs. The OP-1 is all run on an ADI Blackfin and even ADI was quite impressed by how much they got running. The graphics, the peripherals, the audio, everything. I was quite impressed!

You’d think that the tools got better but… honestly? Not really. The complexity of the chips has grown dramatically faster than the ability of the tools to simplify development. I can give tons and tons of examples of this in this particular industry, even with that exact chip. You pay for cheap chips in development and engineering hours

Battery or mobile products are no joke. Small products are no joke. Not only do you have to optimize around cost/performance but also around power considerations. Each major variable you add to development isn’t additive, it isn’t even multiplicative. It’s very difficult to compare apples to oranges here

Then you have overall price… the TG77 would have been roughly 2700$ adjusting for inflation (from 300,000 yen in 1989)

What comparable products do we have in that price range? Those are better comparisons

Just some thoughts. There’s no one right answer to this but if you think you can make a better product for the cost there might just be a business opportunity there!

Re: TX-6 – Teenage Engineering

#324

Post by IAmPym »

IAmPym wrote: post #297
repiret wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh component costs have gone up for sure the last year or so. But I'm saying the per-unit component costs wouldn't be that different between making 1,000 per year or 10,000 per month. [1] [1]: Except that in the current supply chain environment, it would change the "should we pay scalper prices for that component or should we spend the fixed costs to redesign with a different, more available component" calculus.

Your making the assumption that one can buy 1000 of any part, which is likely incorrect These ain’t normal times

Apparently I can't edit this now and correct my grammar mistake... this is going to haunt me.

Re: TX-6 – Teenage Engineering

#325

Post by adrusi »

bombcar wrote: post #259
H1Supreme wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $250 on a Behringer mixer. Yamaha, Mackie, Allen & Heath, Soundcraft, and ART all make mixers with at least 6 channels on them in the $250 price range. So, there's more to the mixer landscape than Teenage Eng. and Behringer. I can't comment on all the brands, but I've used Yamaha and Mackie for years, with virtually zero problems. My old Yamaha 12 channel (which would retail for $300 today) was an absolute tank. It…

Yeah, these knobs look very small to be adjusting in a hurry in the dark backstage but I’m not the target market.

I doubt this will see much backstage use. I expect to see it used by buskers, who need portability (and sometimes the ability to pack up in seconds), and by artists who make fiddling with their equipment part of their performance. That and people who put it on their desk because they like the design.

Re: TX-6 – Teenage Engineering

#326

Post by wildrhythms »

alias_neo wrote: post #240
eej71 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the people who design the atrocious touch screen interfaces inside of cars could get educated by the nice people at teenage engineering, that would be swell.

I was just watching some reviews of electric cars and noticed a tendency to remove all tactility. Some of the models have "touch" buttons for drive mode, and things like environmental controls being touch or on screens is horrid. It's bad enough having to look away from the road for a fraction of a second to find the AC switch in my Nissan, these newer "solutions" just feel plain unsafe.

Don't worry- it's ok if you look away from the road to navigate the air conditioning menu because the automatic pedestrian and obstruction sensing camera will stop the car for you!

Re: TX-6 – Teenage Engineering

#327

Post by tomcam »

npteljes wrote: post #308
tomcam wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is so shallow. Also, I feel exactly the same way.

You have to make sure where it's coming from - which of course we can't do from a single comment. For example, the best place where it could be coming from is self-expression. Owning and using something can be cultivating a relationship with oneself and also a signal for others, and if it's genuine, then it's basically communication of a very valid human need, which is self-expression and seeking the validation for i…

yeah plus it's sexy

Re: TX-6 – Teenage Engineering

#329

Post by Globot »

bigiain wrote: post #271
IAmPym wrote: post #159

"Why is it so expensive?" - commentary from someone who does this for a living at Sequential Small Volume - each unit is more expensive than a large volume product, you don't get price breaks on any components or tooling costs Design focused - Who is the product for? It isn't for people who want to spend 250$ on a Behringer mixer. It is for people who want something that is high quality and doesn't break. Reliable. F…

> This is also one of the biggest strengths of the company, if you want something cheap you're looking in the wrong place. Well, they can do cheap. Their range of Pocket Operator stuff is cheap and hilariously fun. I gotta admit, I did click through to see if this was gonna fall into the “cheap and fun” category l8ke them, or the “more serious and priced appropriately” like the OP Z. I’m not the target market for a $…

Pocket Operator was their Clay Christensen. They're past that phase now.

Re: TX-6 – Teenage Engineering

#330

Post by Globot »

jason0597 wrote: post #313
IAmPym wrote: post #159

"Why is it so expensive?" - commentary from someone who does this for a living at Sequential Small Volume - each unit is more expensive than a large volume product, you don't get price breaks on any components or tooling costs Design focused - Who is the product for? It isn't for people who want to spend 250$ on a Behringer mixer. It is for people who want something that is high quality and doesn't break. Reliable. F…

I was close to agreeing with you, and then I noticed that TE does the classic Apple tactic of taking the USD price of $1200 and simply changing it to GBP and claiming it's £1200 without taking into account the exchange rate at all. So, I highly highly doubt these prices are due to low volume. I would understand if it was $600-$800, but not $1200 come on...

Try shipping/receiving anything from UK post-Brexit, clearing customs, etc.
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