What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world? • Hacker News Board

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#321

Post by blisterpeanuts » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 8:00 PM UTC

This article focuses on jobs, rather on careers. It’s a sad failing of American education that people are completely detached from the concept of starting and running a business, as well as the career path of learning a trade.

People in the trades are doing pretty well, though. Carpentry, plumbing, electrical, general handyman, landscaping, automotive repair, welding, truck driving… these are all highly lucrative fields that don’t require a college degree (though many require some trade schooling and/or apprenticeship). There’s a desperate shortage of people in all of these areas, partly because high schools push kids to go to college rather than trade schools.

Regarding the notion of soul-killing jobs such as the author described, it’s always been this way. Imagine the dreary life of a factory worker around 1900 or so, compelled to labor 7 days a week, 12 hours a day. And if you lose an arm, or fall in a vat of chemicals… tough for you. Or a farm laborer, working in blazing heat many hours a day, or a textile worker, seated at a machine, sewing buttons 60 hours a week.

Life has always been hard. The difference today is that people want and demand a much higher degree of comfort and autonomy in their lives than ever before, and are far more vocal about it.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#322

Post by ceeplusplus » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 8:00 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #295

wonderwonder wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good point. My mortgage and escrow on a decent house in a nice suburb and good school zone on the outskirts of a large city is $2300. Spending $2,500 on rent is insane.

"Spending $2,500 on rent is insane" That's not normal, but it is simply what it costs to live in NYC or SF or London. I know tons of people who pay north of $2,500/month for decent (not fancy) apartments in central neighborhoods of those cities. And $3-$4k/month is very common for a single person.

No, that's what it costs to live alone, in the middle of a highly desirable city that restricts housing supply via NIMBY zoning. None of these things are things you need to live life. You don't need to live alone, you don't need to live in NYC, and you definitely shouldn't feel obligated to live in a place that refuses to build adequate housing.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#323

Post by diordiderot » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 8:00 PM UTC

aerosmile wrote: post #193

iamdbtoo wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's kind of how this country markets itself. Being able to afford a home and a family on a regular worker's pay is literally part of "The American Dream."

The American Dream is not about getting more for less, as in "most luxury for the least amount of effort." It's about having a shot at owning a business without the financial backing of a rich family [0], which is more like "most luxury for an insane amount of effort." [0] A lot of recent discussion centers on how many of the most successful US entrepreneurs come from privileged backgrounds, but you should not lose s…

> literally every other country in the world will fare a lot worse in this regard

US is 27th place on economic mobility index soooo....

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#324

Post by BlargMcLarg » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 8:01 PM UTC

BobbyJo wrote: post #308

mrjangles wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>how modern work for a lot of jobs has become de facto indentured servitude...The average worker can't afford anything without taking on debt. For people from other countries wondering about the veracity of these claims, let's take an example: The typical shitty job everyone on here complains about is working at an amazon warehouse. This is a job people with no skills take on. They pay 15 USD an hour. In other curren…

The part that gets me is the 'modern'. There have been periods where things were somewhat easier in certain regards, but those aren't the norm and were for unsustainable reasons. The US had a nice honeymoon period after WW2 where our position as the world's factory and plentiful natural resources afforded food and housing to be cheap. Young people look around and think things are harder now than they've ever been and…

You'd actually have to accumulate everything before being able to make an absolute statement such as "Young people look around and think things are harder now than they've ever been and it's simply not true" (rather, them having it worse than those before them). I don't know how people can make this statement in such absolute terms, while at best their arguments are "well Y is worse, but X is better!" Let's not forget "young people" still have to live to see their retirement years. At least for someone outside the US, I don't expect to see most of my taxes funding the elderly's retirement returned by future generations (nor do I want that, for that matter).

Nor is it very fruitful to have this measuring contest when it is evident several things have gotten worse for no other reason than greed.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#325

Post by diordiderot » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 8:01 PM UTC

mepiethree wrote: post #206

iamdbtoo wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's kind of how this country markets itself. Being able to afford a home and a family on a regular worker's pay is literally part of "The American Dream."

A home, yeah, not a home in downtown metros. My uncle is a teacher and owns two houses in rural Ohio with his wife, kid, and two dogs. Living the American dream.

How many hours did he work to buy the house. How many will a new teacher have to work.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#326

Post by hattmall » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 8:03 PM UTC

dumpsterlid wrote: post #132

sandworm101 wrote: post #2

>> A meatgrinder job is a job that pays more not because there are fewer people who can do it, but because there are fewer people that will. They have insanely high turnover, because some aspect of the job is so bad that the vast majority of people who try it don’t stay. Maybe it’s long hours that never stop or maybe it’s constant on-call work. Maybe it’s an insane, stress-intensive workload you can’t begin to keep u…

> Or any law enforcement. Please don't equate healthcare workers with law enforcement. Healthcare workers have an astronomically harder job and actually make society a better place.

How many healthcare workers get literally murdered on the job? Anyone that's had been a cop for more than a couple of years will personally know a colleague that was murdered at work. Not to mention the constant number of victims they will encounter. Outside of certain fields most healthcare workers aren't dealing with dead and dieing patients everyday. For many cops in some cities there are multiple fatality call per shift.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#327

Post by powerslacker » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 8:03 PM UTC

rtlfe wrote: post #298

rnikander wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So rent a room and/or don’t live in the best part of the city. That’s what I did near Boston a few years ago. My rent was well under $1000. Do people think they’re entitled to private apartments in the most expensive cities in the world?

> Do people think they’re entitled to private apartments in the most expensive cities in the world? If the cities weren't designed to inflate home values to enrich people who got in early, then yeah pretty much everybody could afford an apartment.

They aren't neccesarily designed that way, it is the reality of democratic local governance that real property owners in a community are naturally going to vote for measures that maximize the value of their property so that they can sell it once the land has a more profitable use than their own. When everyone votes for their own economic interest it tends to make real property more expensive over time.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#328

Post by spacemanmatt » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 8:05 PM UTC

iamdbtoo wrote: post #160

rnikander wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So rent a room and/or don’t live in the best part of the city. That’s what I did near Boston a few years ago. My rent was well under $1000. Do people think they’re entitled to private apartments in the most expensive cities in the world?

Yeah, that's kind of how this country markets itself. Being able to afford a home and a family on a regular worker's pay is literally part of "The American Dream."

I don't know when that idea got started, but it seems like my grandparents' generation (The Greatest Generation) enjoyed the greatest benefits of it, then my parents' generation benefited but also inherited their parents' wealth. As a GenX person, I watched my cohort struggle well more than their boomer parents' cohort.

The American dream was effectively denied to my generation and it's only gotten worse for subsequent generations.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#329

Post by gsich » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 8:05 PM UTC

rnikander wrote: post #124

abxytg wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cynically untrue. Amazon is not even close to bottom of the barrel. And it's clear you haven't paid market rent in a major city since you bought that starter home back in the 90s - 42k is a joke when your rent is close to $2500 and you get no benefits.

So rent a room and/or don’t live in the best part of the city. That’s what I did near Boston a few years ago. My rent was well under $1000. Do people think they’re entitled to private apartments in the most expensive cities in the world?

And have commune add 10 hours of unpaid labor.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#330

Post by rtlfe » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 8:05 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #316

rtlfe wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This can't change because it's not determined by some governing body. It actually is. Rents are expensive because zoning laws severely limit density and require lots of car parking.

Even in cities that don’t require that, rents are still expensive (with the exception of Tokyo where you can rent a 2.5 tatami sized apartment, shared toilet, no central heating, for $300/month).

> Even in cities that don’t require that, rents are still expensive

Maybe you've got some good examples from other countries, but here in the US the only major city with reasonable zoning is Houston which has quite affordable homes.